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I've reading scattered reports all over the Internet that Lexus it aiming to take down BMW for the title of number one luxury sports cars. Reviews from car mags so far put the Japanese marquee just within a hair of BMW.

Can Lexus pull this off? Autospies seems to think so. And Lexus seems only to be hindered by all those nanny gadgets, styming their vehicles in roadtests. But Lexus could learn to make that optional. Ugh.

Do we see the fall of Germany (again) in the autoworld?  

no lexus is not a threat to BMW. Lexus cannot make a car with with BMW performance.  

I think Lexus can upset and surpass BMW. Lexus is very competitive with BMW in all of the classes except one, the M class. If Lexus were to produce vehicles that competed with the M3, M5, and M6, then I could see Lexus doing a hell of a lot better than BMW.

I would much rather drive a GS430 over the 5 Series, IS350 over the 330, RX330 over the X3, and a GX470 over the X5. The new LS430 is looking more refined than the 7 series. Who knows if the IS500 could be a M3 killer?

Lexus is able to provide a european style with japanese build quality.  

it seems like everything in the toyota spectrum of cars are taking over, they build great trucks, luxury cars, and even in the lower end of the spectrum with the scions, i think they are going to take over the world...and make it really reliable  

i agree with ssali, lexus has been coming up particularly strong. the M classes basically is the hair that keeps lexus just below BMW, but otherwise model for model lexus has an answer to BMW. Except for the Z roadsters too unless you want pit the SC430 against it which actually wouldn't be that bad.  

Burtreyn0lds:
it seems like everything in the toyota spectrum of cars are taking over, they build great trucks, luxury cars, and even in the lower end of the spectrum with the scions, i think they are going to take over the world...and make it really reliable

agreed..
you can only sell un-reliable cars based on name recognition for so long.  eventually someone is going to put out something better.  

as far as performace goes, i hope your referring to the M line-up since regular bwms arent special.  the new is350 has 300hp, and the is500 coupe.. ive got my money on toyota, plus it wont break.  

ssali:
I think Lexus can upset and surpass BMW. Lexus is very competitive with BMW in all of the classes except one, the M class. If Lexus were to produce vehicles that competed with the M3, M5, and M6, then I could see Lexus doing a hell of a lot better than BMW.

I would much rather drive a GS430 over the 5 Series, IS350 over the 330, RX330 over the X3, and a GX470 over the X5. The new LS430 is looking more refined than the 7 series. Who knows if the IS500 could be a M3 killer?

Lexus is able to provide a european style with japanese build quality.

"... japanese build quality." I'm beginning to have doubts with all the Toyota recalls of late.  

toyota doesnt make their own tires, or glass for that matter, when compared to bmw's service issues?? forget about it.  

ssali:
I think Lexus can upset and surpass BMW. Lexus is very competitive with BMW in all of the classes except one, the M class. If Lexus were to produce vehicles that competed with the M3, M5, and M6, then I could see Lexus doing a hell of a lot better than BMW.

I would much rather drive a GS430 over the 5 Series, IS350 over the 330, RX330 over the X3, and a GX470 over the X5. The new LS430 is looking more refined than the 7 series. Who knows if the IS500 could be a M3 killer?

Lexus is able to provide a european style with japanese build quality.

joela:
"... japanese build quality." I'm beginning to have doubts with all the Toyota recalls of late.

Come on... you can't build a perfect car. There's no way, you can say that BMW's are built better than Toyota's.

Toyota's recalls affect less than 10 percent of the total amount of vehicles they sale globally. The other 90 percent is still solid!!!  

ssali:
I think Lexus can upset and surpass BMW. Lexus is very competitive with BMW in all of the classes except one, the M class. If Lexus were to produce vehicles that competed with the M3, M5, and M6, then I could see Lexus doing a hell of a lot better than BMW.

I would much rather drive a GS430 over the 5 Series, IS350 over the 330, RX330 over the X3, and a GX470 over the X5. The new LS430 is looking more refined than the 7 series. Who knows if the IS500 could be a M3 killer?

Lexus is able to provide a european style with japanese build quality.

joela:
"... japanese build quality." I'm beginning to have doubts with all the Toyota recalls of late.

ssali:
Come on... you can't build a perfect car. There's no way, you can say that BMW's are built better than Toyota's.

Toyota's recalls affect less than 10 percent of the total amount of vehicles they sale globally. The other 90 percent is still solid!!!

Actually Bimmers are built far better than Toyotas. If we are talking about actual build and component quality there is no comparison. Go stick your head under a Toyota/Lexus, you will see suspension components mad out of stamped steel. When you start poking around on the body of the car you will see that everything is 18 gage steel and lots of tack welds. In the interior you will see that just about all the materials are between 20 and 30% thinner than those used on the bimmer. When you look under the BMW you will see cast and forged alloy suspension components, you will see a body made out of 14 and 16 gage steel, and you will see far more seem welds.

Are toyotas more reliable than BMWs, yes definitely. But lets not confuse reliability with build and engineering quality.

Toyota cars have been better on paper for several years now, but go out to the race track and see which cars are performing. The Toyota cars have cooked there brakes, boiled over their power steering fluid and overheated their cooling system in the first session. The BMWs run all day without complaining. Plus the BMWs are running faster lap times.

To answer the question, I think Toyota may be able to outsell BMW. Will they ever make better cars, it depends on the criteria you are judging them by. Lots of people want to be able to show their friends and neighbors brochures that have huge horsepower numbers in them and brag how they got more features and paid less than the person that bought the BMW. Remeber how many people bragged about what an amazing car they had when they drove up in their 3000GT and how it was far superior to a 911, does anyone still really believe that?  

ssali:
I think Lexus can upset and surpass BMW. Lexus is very competitive with BMW in all of the classes except one, the M class. If Lexus were to produce vehicles that competed with the M3, M5, and M6, then I could see Lexus doing a hell of a lot better than BMW.

I would much rather drive a GS430 over the 5 Series, IS350 over the 330, RX330 over the X3, and a GX470 over the X5. The new LS430 is looking more refined than the 7 series. Who knows if the IS500 could be a M3 killer?

Lexus is able to provide a european style with japanese build quality.

joela:
"... japanese build quality." I'm beginning to have doubts with all the Toyota recalls of late.

ssali:
Come on... you can't build a perfect car. There's no way, you can say that BMW's are built better than Toyota's.

Toyota's recalls affect less than 10 percent of the total amount of vehicles they sale globally. The other 90 percent is still solid!!!

aquabat911:
Actually Bimmers are built far better than Toyotas. If we are talking about actual build and component quality there is no comparison. Go stick your head under a Toyota/Lexus, you will see suspension components mad out of stamped steel. When you start poking around on the body of the car you will see that everything is 18 gage steel and lots of tack welds. In the interior you will see that just about all the materials are between 20 and 30% thinner than those used on the bimmer. When you look under the BMW you will see cast and forged alloy suspension components, you will see a body made out of 14 and 16 gage steel, and you will see far more seem welds.

Are toyotas more reliable than BMWs, yes definitely. But lets not confuse reliability with build and engineering quality.

Toyota cars have been better on paper for several years now, but go out to the race track and see which cars are performing. The Toyota cars have cooked there brakes, boiled over their power steering fluid and overheated their cooling system in the first session. The BMWs run all day without complaining. Plus the BMWs are running faster lap times.

To answer the question, I think Toyota may be able to outsell BMW. Will they ever make better cars, it depends on the criteria you are judging them by. Lots of people want to be able to show their friends and neighbors brochures that have huge horsepower numbers in them and brag how they got more features and paid less than the person that bought the BMW. Remeber how many people bragged about what an amazing car they had when they drove up in their 3000GT and how it was far superior to a 911, does anyone still really believe that?

Word, especially the last paragraph. Let's not race with magazine numbers.  

I'd say no.
What would be scary is if they merged.
Japan and Germany would take over the world.  

DjGiant:
I'd say no.
What would be scary is if they merged.
Japan and Germany would take over the world.

japan and germany merging to take over the world?

i think i've heard this plot before  

DjGiant:
I'd say no.
What would be scary is if they merged.
Japan and Germany would take over the world.

Burtreyn0lds:
japan and germany merging to take over the world?

i think i've heard this plot before

Umm yeah, and from what I have read it didn't turn out so well for anyone.  

I went to the Taste of Lexus drive event last year when Lexus was promoting the new IS.  They set up a semi autocross track where you could drive the new IS and some of its competitors as hard as you like around the track.  The IS 350 had good power but i thought the suspension was too soft and unbalanced.  I was not confident driving it around the course fast.  The paddle shifters were too slow.  BMW's SMG tranny is a lot better.
The BMW 330i was very confidence-inspiring in the turns.  It was not as powerful as the IS350 but it was more fun to drive in the twisties.
I was surprised that they did not have an Infiniti G35 for us to drive.  That car is the best of both worlds because it has more power than the BMW 330i and it handles more like a BMW than the IS.  But most people who buy these cars do not take them to the race track.
I personally think the whole Lexus line is ugly but they have very nice interiors.  But in the end people want the status of BMW.  Lexus will probably never match BMW in that category