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German vehicles used to have rep for being bulletproof. Mercedes-Benz, especially, were considered like tanks. Yet every long-term review I read in the media or hear from friends and colleagues point otherwise.

What happened? I'm buying a new car in a couple of years and am considering a Bimmer or Audi. But I'm hesitating, especially with the latter which is owned by Volkswagen, considered the "horror" among the three Euro brands.

Opinions?  

I think the euros production divisions are going the M&A way ( mergers and acquisitions )and thus quality is going to be affected, this is the rumor around the water cooler.  

Volkswagen is not that bad.
I've been around a lot of VW forums and i have come to find that as far as the VW brand goes, you'll either end up with a car that'll give u a whole bunch of problems, or a car that will be just as good as any HOnda out there.  So far i havnt really had any problems, so dont hate on VW to much...lol  

hows your clutch?  

Every Volkswagen I have been around has been nothing but problems.  But then again I havent been around too too many.  

hahaha....the clutch...that wasnt VW's fault...I went a lil bit race crazy when i got the car...  

VWs really aren't that bad. The problems they had a few years ago weren't necessarily the cars fault but more VWOA. They kept denying there were problems, when quite clearly there was. The window regulators and coil packs were the big problems. Both of which were supplied by an outside contractor and not built by VW. With that being said, VWOA is run by complete idiots, and consequently their dealer network is pretty awful. It is hard to find a good vw dealer, but they are out there. I have owned six VWs myself, my parents have had three, my brother has one, my sister and brother in law have owned at least 5. I have found them to be very reliable. My GTI went for 250K miles with no major repairs, I had a Passat with over 100K, no major problems, my current car has 62K on it, the only thing that has needed replacement is the battery. It still has the brake pads it came with from the factory. Yes the clutch is even fine, and most people are getting over 80K on factory VW clutches.

For Mercedes, I would say their biggest problem now is their recent acquisition of Chrysler. They are now designing cars with the intention of being able to retire the platform and then use it as a Chrysler product after its Mercedes life cycle is over. This requires them to use cheaper production methods, and materials. Everyone got excited with the merger, knowing that it would bring needed improvements to Chrysler, which it certainly did, but unfortunately it has dragged Mercedes down a little bit. merceds had the highest quality standards in the automotive industry for several years. They actually measured cars per defect, rather than defects per car. Unfortunately this isn't the case anymore.

As far as European cars in general. yes they require more maintenance. Germans in general have a different attitude towards maintanence than several other countries. They always keep a car in top condition, they have to their TUV inspections are extremely strict. Which I guess if you have roads with no speed limit, they need to be. They except the fact that parts need to replaced more often if you want them to perform the best. Consquently, German cars tend to run perfectly or horribly, there isn't alot of grey area. Another reason you see worse reliability numbers for European vehicles is that European car drivers tend to be a little pickier.     As soon as the car makes a little noise, a small vibration, it is in the shop. You find a much higher percentage of enthusiasts who drive European cars, than Asian or American cars. I know tons of people who said they wanted a BMW but bought a Lexus or Infiniti because they heard they were more reliable and didn't want to deal with it. Yet the enthusiasts drove the German cars and the Japanese cars and bought the Bimmer for the driving experience. I think the quality is still there in most German cars, it's the "perceived quality" that is lacking.  

That's a very good analysis of German vehicles, one that most folks (especially Americans) rarely point out. Thanks!  

Mercedes makes bullet proof cars?  Where can I get one?  

jching:
Mercedes makes bullet proof cars?  Where can I get one?

http://www.alpha-armouring.com/armored/mercedes/

http://www.firstdefense.com/html/Armoured_Mercedes430.htm

http://www.securityprousa.com/armebes.html

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/2000_Mercedes-Benz_Guard_S500.S175.A1822.html

They have a couple in the Peterson museum in LA too. They have video of a guy shooting the windows with an AK47 and they stop the bullets.  

the peterson museum is awesome i haven't been in a couple of years, i bet they have all kinds of cool stuff i haven't seen  

Burtreyn0lds:
the peterson museum is awesome i haven't been in a couple of years, i bet they have all kinds of cool stuff i haven't seen

they have a hall devoted to Steve McQueen (the coolest car guy ever)

and another one to Chip Foose (one of the coolest and nicest car guys ever)

A selection of cars that were built for Hot Wheels

Plus the usual collection of vintage cars, race cars, motorcycles and memerobelia.

http://www.petersen.org/  

My family owns 3 BMWs and they all have A LOT of minor problems. Such as rattling sound from speakers, door trim etc. But they have never broken down or had any severe problems. I think if you don't mind the minor problems or you don't mind taking your car into the dealership to fix and get a BMW loaner car for free then BMW's reliability is fine.  

But are they bulletproof?  

steve mcqueen wow i really want to go, field trip!
and i agree i've met chip foose at a couple of car shows and he was super nice, they say hes the nicest guy in cars but poeple are wrong, its really billy gibbons of zz top fame  

to answer the original post - they made quality cars at one time, back before the whole japanese reliability standard thing.  now they are just surviving based on NAME recognition.  and its working, people still think oooo its a bmw, or benz... based on NAME only, they sell cars based on image and brand recognition, not by having a quility product.