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03 Grand Caravan 3.8L knocking noise

 
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bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/24/12
07:17 AM

We were traveing on I95 southbound from South Jersey to Maryland.  We were about 30 miles from our destinltion and heard a knocking noise in the engine.  We were able to get right off at a rest stop.  Sounds to me like a rod knock.  Do you think I might be able to get away with a set of rod bearigs for now?

If I have to have to pull the engine can I pull it out from the top or do I have to drop it out from the botom?

Is there anything else that I mght be missing that could cause this sound?  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
08:10 AM

does it get loud as you increase RPMs...

its a rod...

you might want to examine the harmonic damper before you do anything....

the rubber fails and the damper bangs both ends of its limiting stops...  really makes a racket..  takes a special 3 jaw puller that almost every parts store keeps in stock in their loan a tool section behind the counter...  its different than a conventional 3 jaw puller as its short and instead of a V shaped push button. it has multiple rods that go in the end of the center bolt to bottom out in the back of the threaded crank hole.... so you don't mash the end of the crank...


depending on the amount of damage.. sticking some rod bearings might work for a short time... depends on how much scoring there has been done to the crank...

the oil pump on that motor is mounted on the crank snout... so there is NO easy way to change it..
its going to be cheeper to get a Uhaul and a car dolly and take it home.. if you have something like AAA plus or AAA premium.. 30 miles of towing is covered..

the engines as far as i know the engines come out the bottom attached to the subframe...

usually the van is set up on a side post lift....  the CV shafts pulled... all the hoses and wires disconnected...  a strong cart is set under the subframe/engine/transmission..  van lowered or cart raised... subframe to body bolts removed...   body lifted up slowly.. off the engine..

there is a good article on rebuilding the chrysler V6 family.. and another on rebuilding the 3.3 and 3.8 motor or 3.5 and 3.8...  so you can pick up some tips...  its over at engine builder magazine.  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
08:17 AM

wow.. i forgot to look at who the poster was...

guess i am running in automatic...


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Content/Site302/Articles/03_01_2010/7203433L38Lpdf_00000029832.pdf  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
08:29 AM

oil pan R and R..


3.3L & 3.8L Engines
Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions Section.
Drain the engine oil.
Remove or disconnect the following:

Negative battery cable
Engine oil dipstick
Drive belt splash shield
Strut to transaxle attaching bolt and loosen the strut to engine attaching bolts
Transaxle case cover
Oil pan fasteners
Oil pan and gasket


To install:

Clean the oil pan and all mating surfaces.
Apply a 1 / 8 inch bead of gasket material at the parting line of the chain case cover and the real seal retainer.
Install or connect the following:

New gasket on the oil pan
Oil pan. Torque the bolts to 105 inch lbs. (12 Nm).
Transaxle case cover
All bending brace bolts
Drive belt splash shield
Engine oil dipstick
Negative battery cable


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

engine R a R


3.3L & 3.8L Engines
Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions Section.
Drain the cooling system.
Drain the engine oil.
Relieve the fuel system pressure.
Recover the A/C refrigerant.
Remove or disconnect the following:

Battery and tray
Air cleaner and hoses
Fuel line from the rail
Wiper module

Block off the heater hoses to the rear system by using pinch off pliers, if equipped.
NOTE
When the transaxle lines are removed from the fittings at the transaxle damage to the inner wall of the hose will occur. To prevent leakage, cut the cooler hoses off flush at the transaxle fitting and use a service cooler hose splice kit upon installation.



Heater hoses
Radiator upper support crossmember
Engine cooling fan
Throttle body linkage
Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor connector
Idle Air Control (IAC) valve connector
Throttle Position (TPS) sensor connector
Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) transducer connector
Vacuum lines from the throttle body, brake booster and speed control
Wiring harness clip from the right side mount
Power steering reservoir and set aside without disconnecting the lines
Ground strap from the rear of the cylinder head
Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor connector
Ignition coil connectors
Fuel injector connectors and clip from the bracket
Camshaft (CMP) and Crankshaft (CKP) position sensor connectors
A/C compressor electrical connectors and hoses. Cap the lines to avoid system contamination.
Radiator upper hose
Electrical connector at the transaxle dipstick tube
Transaxle dipstick tube and seal the opening to avoid system contamination



Transaxle cooler lines, cut the lines flush at the transaxle fittings
Transaxle shift linkage and electrical connectors
Axle halfshafts
Crossmember cradle plate
Power Transfer Unit (PTO), if equipped
Exhaust front pipe from the manifold
Front motor mount and bracket
Rear motor mount bracket
Engine-to-transaxle struts
Transaxle case cover
Torque converter
Power steering pressure hose clip bolt
Knock sensor connector, if equipped
Engine block heater connector, if equipped
Drive belt splash shield
Accessory drive belt
Lower radiator hose
A/C compressor
Alternator
Water pump pulley bolts and position the pulley between the pump and the housing
Oil pressure switch connector
Wiring harness clip from the dipstick tube

Install adapter tools on the right side of the engine block as illustrated

Power steering pump and set aside

Raise the vehicle enough to position dolly 6135, cradle tool 6710 with posts 6848 and adapter tool 6909 under vehicle.
Loosen the cradle posts to allow movement for proper positioning. Lower the vehicle and position the cradle/post mounts until the engine is resting on the posts and then tighten the mounts to the cradle frame to prevent mounts from moving when removing/installing the powertrain assembly.
Attach safety straps around the engine-to-cradle assembly. Lower the vehicle so the weight of the powertrain assembly, not the vehicle are on the cradle.
Remove or disconnect the following:

Engine right side mount-to-engine bolts
Left mount through bolt



Fig. Adapter tools 6912 and 8444 mounted on the block-3.3L and 3.8L engines





Fig. Position tool 6848 for use with adapters 8444 and 6912-3.3L and 3.8L engines


Raise the vehicle away from the powertrain.

To install:

Lower the vehicle over the powertrain.
Align the engine and transmission mounts to their attaching points. Install and tighten the right mount and left transmission mounts as shown in the two accompanying illustrations.
Remove the safety straps and the dolly and adapters.
Install or connect the following:

Power steering pump and pressure line



Alternator
Wiring harness clip to the dipstick tube
Oil pressure switch connector
A/C compressor
Water pump pulley
Lower radiator hose
Accessory drive belt
Drive belt splash shield
Engine block heater connector, if equipped
Knock sensor connector, if equipped
Power steering pressure hose clip bolt
Torque converter
Transaxle case cover
Engine-to-transaxle struts
Rear motor mount bracket
Front motor mount and bracket
PTO, if equipped
Axle halfshafts
Exhaust front pipe to the manifold
Crossmember cradle plate
Transaxle shift linkage and electrical connectors
Transaxle cooler lines using a splice kit
Transaxle dipstick tube and
Electrical connector at the transaxle dipstick tube
A/C compressor electrical connectors and hoses
CMP and CKP position sensor connectors
Fuel injector connectors and clip to the bracket
ECT sensor connector
Ignition coil connectors
Ground strap to the rear of the cylinder head
Power steering reservoir
Wiring harness clip to the right side mount
Vacuum lines to the throttle body, brake booster and speed control
EGR transducer connector
TPS sensor connector
IAC valve connector
MAP sensor connector
Throttle body linkage
Engine cooling fan
Radiator upper hose
Heater hoses
Radiator upper support crossmember
Wiper module
Fuel line to the rail
Air cleaner and hoses
Battery and tray

Fill the cooling system.
Fill the engine with clean oil.
Recharge the A/C system.
Start the engine and check for leaks.  

bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/24/12
10:57 AM

I had lots of fun yesterday.
I'm told the 2 wheel doley isn't wide enough to fit the wheel base of a caravan so I had to rent a 4 wheel carry trailer to pick it up.
Also had to borrow a truck for the tow. The truck was an almost new chevy avalanch 8 cyl 4X4.
Nice ride even with a 5500 lb tow.
First I could,t get the truck untill after 3:00 then travle to pick up the trailer where the wire harness was differant so I had to go to an auto store and back to
u haul.
Droped the car off at home, droped the trailer off, Droped the truck off and went home
after 9:30.
Then I got a call from my son telling me he hit a dear with my saturn.
Small dear.
Think I can get away with a head light.

Happy Thanks giving  

bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/24/12
11:03 AM

Thanks Wayne  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
11:31 AM

somebody is going to have to do something about those deer....

get them some stylish sunglasses to wear at night to shield their eyes from the shine of bright headlights.. so you don't get the deer in the headlights effect..

perhaps create a device with a salt lick in the middle. that slips reflective collars over the dears head and around its neck... with a slight snug on the draw cable when they pull back..

that would probably lead the deers to start muttering the expression  DOH!!!  actually Doe!!!..

other deer saying ah.. been to mardi gras huh..   or where can i get tickets to jerry springer..

sorry... it just came to mind...

let me know if you need anything else.... some kind of immoral support..  check PM...  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
11:44 AM

before you yank the motor...

stick a tight fitting breaker bar on a tight fitting socket on the crank bolt.. rock the crank back and forth and listen for loose rods... turn it 1/3 of a turn.. rock again.. turn 1/3 of a turn and listen again..

i have used furnature dollies.. to lower the engine/trans and subframe onto... using a conventional engine hoist with a ratcheting chain hoist over  some creative multi sized washer stacking... to allow the chain to have a pulley that will guide it...   |||--__--|||   i created this on a threaded pin type of shackle..  it was right at the end of the hoist arm..  

this is cheeper than the ratcheting chain hoist...

Image 20523

this would allow you to crank the engine downward or upward...  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/24/12
11:46 AM

this is like the lever chain hoist we used...

Image 16552


1-1/2 Ton Lever Chain Hoist
Central Machinery - Item#66106

Hoist up to 3,000 lbs. easily and safely

there are less tonnage versions available...  this is from HF  

bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/25/12
01:28 PM

My ears are not what they used to be so I ask my 2 sons to tell me where the noise was comming from. They both told me it was comming from the rear valve body area.
A friend of mine told me if I take the wind shield whipper arms off I can then remove the plastic cover and the pan that holds the wipper motor and linkage.
4 bolts, 4 nuts, wire connector and washer hose and it's off.
You now can get to the rear valve cover with out much trouble plus if you remove the radiator fans and support it looks like you can now get the engine out the top.
Don't know how I could pull the motor out the bottom in my drive way at home.

Is it possible to replace the crank with the engice in the car?
Biggest problem I see is the rear main seal.
But what di I know.
I'm a tranney guy.


Bob  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/25/12
01:55 PM

it is possible that a rocker arm boss broke off... this has been known to happen but i think it was only on slightly earlier motors..

autozone sells automotive stethoscopes for around 10 bucks.. harbor freight sells them for 4 bucks..

you can still use your transmission extension.. to the spot just in front of your ear.... lets you hear the sounds transmitted up the extension shaft..

i don't think its possible.. did you see the article about rebuilding the V6 i linked above..

yes.. the panel over the engine does come off... there is a switch on one side that needs to be unplugged and/or unhooked... then several screws around the outer and it comes off.. makes it a LOT easier to access the motor..

do you have a digital cam corder???   do you have a decent cell phone that takes movies..

if you feel like having the kids start it and you video record it so i can hear the knocking noise.. or post it to youtube and paste link here...


i am sending you some info via message above.. so log in. and check... i think you will be happy...  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/25/12
02:18 PM

piece #6 comes out almost complete with all the other parts attached

00I72527

i just don't think its possible to do an in chassis crank swap.. nothing is impossible.. but you are going to have to drop the transmission... support the engine from above.. drop the subframe.. then shift the engine away from the passenger side so you can get the timing cover completely off after you have removed the oil pan..

i am also thinking the bolts are TORQUE to yield.. one use only...

i have seen shops do jag sixes in chassis..   but somebody messed up.. failed to mark the caps .. they got all mixed up.. it took my former boss 3 hours to figure out all out ...

he had run across worse situations.. during wwII.. somebody damaged a motor in a truck that was built in spain..  they took it all apart and tossed all the fasteners in buckets..  they did not realize that spain was not standardized.. so each bolt fit each NUT ONLY... each one was custom..  said it took 2 months to put it back together..  it was a babbited mains and rods motor ..  so fixing the bearings was no big deal.. after the war.. they standardized..  used flat head fords... produced them up through the mid 70s..   somebody found out and went over and bought up dozens of brand new flat head blocks..  

bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/25/12
03:04 PM

All ready have the pan with the wiper motor out and valve cover off.
Don't see a problem there.
My bigest problem is the cold weather. My hands get cold and I have to go in the house to warm up.
Back to it tomorrow if I don't have to work.
Working out a shop on an as needid basis as the 2nd builder.
Hope I have  to work.  

bbuss2 bbuss2
Enthusiast | Posts: 434 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 11/26/12
02:05 PM

I started to put the valve cover back on until I could't find one bolt.
thought it could have fallen into the valve train so I had to remove again.
With cover off I found the bolt under a spark plug. Cover back on.

Lifted the car and removed the pan.
After removing he pan and removing one cap it so far looks like the crank is ok.

I am 60 years old and about 240 pounds and used to working on my feet.
This is no fun.  

waynep71222 waynep71222
Guru | Posts: 825 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 11/26/12
04:07 PM

did you get the LINK i sent for the repair info site???  

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