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Hi,

Today I was driving with my 2005 Chrysler town&country through a puddle in about 30mph (got a nice splash..), and after about 3 minutes, the check engine light turned on...
I tried to turn the engine off and on, and it is steady on..

What can it be?..

thanks,

Eran.  

lets find out...

engine off...   turn the key ON..  OFF... ON.. OFF.. ON.. OFF.. ON....  without cranking or starting the engine...

at this point .. the dash board will do some strange things.. and the odometer display will start flashing trouble codes...

write them down...

if you missed one..    turn the key off and start again..   3 times on within 10 seconds with the last position ON will get you all the trouble codes..

write them down..   post them..  and which motor you have...

cars are Really NOT designed to drive through water that deep..  

Hi,

Thanks. I did as you recommended and i found two codes on:

P0700
P0522

where can i see what they stand for?

thanks,

Eran.  

the P0700 says the transmission controller section of the PCM  has a trouble code stored in it... this needs to be accessed with a scan tool.. and during the set up.. select transmission or drive train instead of engine controls..




P0522  Oil Pressure Voltage Too Low,  Oil pressure sending unit (sensor) voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.



more to come...

warning.. DO NOT JUST CLEAR THE TROUBLE CODES..

you will want to examine the snap shot data stream and record it.. transfer it to a PC.. so you can compare it to current live data...

what??   when a trouble code is set...  the computer records a SNAP shot of the live data stream .. so mechanics can see what the car was doing at that instant in time...  makes it a LOT easier to diagnose..





P0522-OIL PRESSURE SENSOR LOW
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0522-OIL PRESSURE SENSOR LOW
When Monitored: With the ignition key on and battery voltage above 10.4 volts. Set Condition: The oil pressure sensor voltage at PCM goes below 0.1 volts for 0.5 of a second.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
Possible Causes:
GOOD TRIP EQUAL TO ZERO
OIL PRESSURE SENSOR INTERNAL FAILURE
(G6) OPS SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN
(G6) OPS SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
PCM
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
Action:
1) NOTE: Diagnose and repair any other Sensor Voltage High DTCs before performing this test.
Turn the ignition on, with the engine not running, for a minimum of 90 seconds. With the DRBIIIt, read PCM DTCs and record the related Freeze Frame data. Is the Good Trip counter displayed and equal to zero?

Yes > Go To 2
No > Refer to the INTERMITTENT CONDITION symptom in the
Driveability category.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.
2) Turn the ignition off. Disconnect the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector.
NOTE: When there is no oil pressure present, the Oil Pressure Sensor contacts are normally closed.
NOTE: Engine must be off for a minimum of 90 seconds to allow for the oil pressure to bleed down.
Measure the resistance between the Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit terminal in the Oil Pressure Sensor and ground. Is the resistance above 5 ohms?

Yes > Replace the Oil Pressure Sensor.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.
No > Go To 3

3) Turn the ignition off. Disconnect the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector. Turn the ignition on. Measure the voltage of the Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit at the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector. Is the voltage above 11.0 volts?

Yes > Go To 4
No > Go To 5

4) Turn the ignition off. Disconnect the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector.
Disconnect the PCM harness connector. Measure the voltage of the Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit at the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector. Is there any voltage present?

Yes > Repair the (G6) Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit for a short to voltage.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.
No > Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module in accordance with the Service Information.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.

5) Turn the ignition off. Disconnect the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector. Disconnect the PCM harness connector. CAUTION: DO NOT PROBE THE PCM HARNESS CONNECTORS. PROBING THE PCM HARNESS CONNECTORS WILL DAMAGE THE PCM TERMINALS
RESULTING IN POOR TERMINAL TO PIN CONNECTION. INSTALL MILLER SPECIAL TOOL #8815 TO PERFORM DIAGNOSIS. Measure the resistance of the (G6) Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit from the Oil Pressure Sensor harness connector to the appropriate terminal of special tool #8815. Is the resistance below 100 ohms?

Yes > Repair the open (G6) Oil Pressure Sensor signal circuit.Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.
No > Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module in accordance
with the Service Information. Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5 - NGC.  

the engine oil pressure sender looks like this...



you could have water trapped in the connector body.. or damage to the wiring or the sensor..


you will also need to keep an eye on noises from the rotating parts..  you might want to invest in a usually under 10 buck automotive stethoscope...  start listening to various parts with the engine running.. like the alternator and the AC compressor..  if you can get at them...  those have exposed bearings and can fail when submerged in deep water..



you may also experience wheel bearing failure..  because of the submergence..    

even the CV shafts can be damaged if the boots are torn at all...

antilock speed sensors many build up rust..

brake caliper slides can rust also..  

Hi,

Thanks, i will take the car to be examined in the repair shop since i don't have the experience or the tools.

Which one of the codes made the CEL on? the p0700 or p0522?

and should i tell the mechanic anything specific that might help him find or solve the problem?

do these error codes note serious danger to the engine\drive train if i drive the car before fixing it?

thanks,

Eran  

either error code may turn on the check engine light...

both go to different systems

be sure that you have them put the codes on the estimate. and the work order..   they should also show up on the receipt..

examining.. the snap shot data.. then comparing it to the live data stream..    

recording both.. and dragging it to a pc..

then clearing the codes..  and taking a test drive..  to see if they reset..

this is diagnostic work..  after a visual inspection..

you should NOT have to have the transmission removed and opened for inspection..  

if you have a harbor freight tools store around.. they have a 130 buck p tax scan tool that will let you look at the various live data streams..   it will look at and record the snap shot info.. i don't know how well it will do with the transmission. info..  it should also do that..  

you do have the choice of.. just taking a chance.. and getting the codes cleared..  and seeing if they reset..

that is the step usually after a proper scan tool look.. then a  visual inspection..  then clear the codes and see if they reset..

it could be that simple..  

item 98614

the only problem is this is  a decent generic scan tool..   does amazing stuff..  its the least expensive scan tool that actually can help you fix your car..   this is usually just slightly more than what it costs to turn off the check engine light at most dealers..

professional scan tools usually cost over 3,000 bucks..  and make this look like a pencil..    i use one of these a lot..

i also have several other scan tools including some older professional versions i picked up cheep when people upgraded..  

Hi,

Went to the repair shop, still waiting for their reply but they said:
the error codes are p0700 and p0760. they are related to the gear or gear sensor.
waiting for the specialist here. in the mean time they say that the gear is external so it is better then closed gear (dont know what it means)..
anything that i missed there?
thanks,
Eran.  

could just be the amount of water that got into the connector from swimming..   the valve body is if you look directly below the radiator cooling fan motor...  a box on the front of the transmission..


P0760-OD SOLENOID CIRCUIT
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0760-OD SOLENOID CIRCUIT
When Monitored: Initially at power-up, then every 10 seconds thereafter. They will also
be tested immediately after a Gear Ratio or Pressure Switch error is detected.
Set Condition: Three consecutive solenoid continuity test failures, or one failure if test is
run in response to a Gear Ratio or Pressure Switch error.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
RELATED RELAY DTC’S PRESENT
INTERMITTENT WIRING AND CONNECTORS
TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN
OD SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN
OD SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORT TO GROUND
OD SOLENOID CONTROL CIRCUIT SHORT TO VOLTAGE
OD SOLENOID
TRANSMISSION CONTROL MODULE


this calls for a connector disconnect and blow dry..   perhaps a wash with connector cleaner.. that sometimes is available..

clearing codes and test drive to see if it resets..

if the water was a little salty..  you might want to have the lower part of the engine bay pressure washed lightly..  perhaps even taking the car to one of those car washes that have the underbody spray bars..  

car wash guys may know about doing a proper car wash for deep water ...  where they wash the door jam areas also .. along with the inner fenders  .. actually flush them with water..

verify the door drains are open...   yes.. there are hidden slots along the bottom of the front doors to allow trapped rain and wash water to drain out..   go through a deep puddle.. it can fill from the bottom..  causing the lower door to rust out..

i have not been under that late a model to check how the rocker panels are drained...  

thanks,

it wasn't such a deep puddle, maybe 3 inch deep...

the mechanic said 2 sensors and a solenoid should be replaced. and i am lucky that it is external in this model...

parts (around 250$)+ 3 hour work....so the total - around 500$.

makes sense?..  

thats the safe way to ***

the 2 sensors are cheep... probably 30 to 40  bucks each depending on where they come from.... those are almost wear items.. they switch electrical currents probably 40 times per tire revolution..  so they should be replaced when ever there is some kind of problem..  failure of these is hard to spot with a scan tool sometimes unless one understands.. that when one fails..  the computer substitutes a speed similar to another sensor..  this is shown on a scan tool...  so it looks ok...  but the input and output speed sensors should have vastly different readings as the transmission runs through the gears with the front wheels up in the air..

the valve body is NOT cheep...  they do fail...   they do fail do to thermal issues.. where the coil windings inside fail when they get hot..    again .. there are sensors in it also.. these are pressure sensors.. so the computer knows how much pressure is on the individual circuits..  and thats were the failure is...

i like to verify failures before i replace parts..

if the valve body has actually failed..  and its TOTALLY possible..   replacing all three is a good idea...


please...   as long as they are in there.. and this repair usually requires removing the battery.. the battery tray... most times the radiator cooling fans...    

under the battery tray on the top of the frame rail is a stud sticking up with several wires attached and held down with a nut..

please have them take that apart and clean the ring terminals with a wire brush...  

please also have them clean the ground cable connections on the back of the cylinder head ...

both of these have caused many problems with transmission and engine codes and drivability...


cleaning ground wire connections will take them probably 15 or 20 minutes additional time if they have the battery tray out..

the ground connections are not like a house ground connection..   the ground connections in a car.. ARE half of the circuit...

and a bigger twist...   electrons flow from Negative to positive... so if you have a dirty ground connection..  you may not have enough electrons flowing through to properly power the circuit..      kinda like trying to water the lawn.. while the car tire is parked on the garden hose..  you will get a some water but then it will drop to a trickle..

since you are using electrons to do the work..  a trickle is NOT going to do the job..  

sorry.. i misread the depth of the water..  i though it was 30 inches deep.. not 30MPH...

l drive a full size ford van.. my friend has a ranger pickup.. we love splashing through puddles..   there is one dip on san fernando road in sun valley ca.. where you can almost always find a puddle about 6 inches deep..  what a car wash..