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440t4
Guru
| Posts: 869
| Joined: 04/09
Posted: 10/31/11 09:20 AM
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If the convertors are identical once you have the bell housing tight to the engine you should be able to reach in with a pic and turn the convertor easily and the convertor bolts should actually pull the convertor an 1/8 inch toward the flywheel when you tighten them. If not then the convertor is not all the way in or it's the wrong trans but much more likely the convertor has to go in more. Sometimes you have to hold the convertor by the pilot and spin the the convertor with the heel of your hand while you wiggle the pilot to get it in all the way.
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Posted: 10/31/11 11:45 PM
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Sorry guys, it turned out the TC wasn't lodge into the transmission fully. I bolted it down, but now here's another nuiscance.. The torque converter bolts seem to stick out too far because I tried to put that plastic hole plug back in and when I rotated the engine I can see the TC bolts hitting the plastic and moving it towards me.
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Posted: 11/01/11 08:34 AM
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when you installed the transmission with the TC not fully seated..
the TC mounting bosses have bent the flex plate toward the engine...
change the flex plate...
unless you had the flex plate off... look at the ring gear teeth... you will probably see tooth damage/wear marks on the starter side... i don't know if its possible to get it on backwards... this is just a look at see...
tightening the transmission into the engine with the TC not fully seated might have done damage to the front pump also...
you might want to see if the flex plate is totally flat.. the center section...
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Posted: 11/01/11 08:59 AM
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i also seem to recall that torque converter bolts ...
have a lower head than what's in there... in the picture...
they usually don't have a raised ridge around the hex head...
are quite short where the hex head is...
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440t4
Guru
| Posts: 869
| Joined: 04/09
Posted: 11/01/11 02:23 PM
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That looks like the right bolt he probably bent the flywheel. Hopefully he didn't damage the pump.
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Posted: 11/02/11 12:14 AM
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OMG you guys are right! I put back the whole damn thing, got it started and could hear the TC bolts rubbing against the BLACK METAL PlATE behind the flex plate (Also causing light smoke)!!
ON TOP OF ALL THIS, the vehicle won't move in any gear! Feels like no pressure is getting to the turbine!??
Someone please help, I am in a *** hole right now. Do I replace just the flex plate or the pump also?? These are big expensive decisions for me!
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Posted: 11/02/11 12:18 AM
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Do you think my front pump on my old transmission is still good? I hear pumps last a long time. I would hate to have to buy a new one!
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Posted: 11/02/11 12:22 AM
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On top of all this, AllData states this job should take around 6.5 hours and I have put in a solid 30 hours!
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Posted: 11/02/11 05:17 AM
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i am sorry...
but the transmission is probably junk from one end to the other..
one cannot tell without a complete tear down.. and examination..
when the transmission did not slide all the way forward to mate with the back of the block depending on what was NOT lined up in the torque converter.. either the input splines or the converter hub into the front pump.. it probably bent or shoved the entire gear train rearward in the case... since there is only about 0.010 forward to rearward clearance .. you have squished everything its not designed to withstand that kind of force.. it would be like dropping a transmission on the output shaft... its going to break everything.. you have at least bent the case so it will be almost impossible to establish the clearance specs needed for a proper repair of the internal gear train...
start with ANOTHER complete transmission and torque converter... you can also deform a torque converter with what happened..
i feel bad that we could not have helped before you torqued the transmission to the back of the engine...
i think i did mention about the hyundai.. where the owner changed the clutch. but did not align the disc... used long bolts to close the over 1 inch gap... he not only drove the input shaft in... shoving the main shaft out through the back of the case.. but also bent the bell housing and the back of the block was bowed were the bolts pulled the two parts together...
a LOT of people make this mistake.. you are not the first.. you are NOT THE LAST>.
when i went to automotive training.. a group of students brought an old truck in for a clutch job..
the instruction did a lesson on installing the clutch and aligning the disc.. left it for the students who had removed the transmission to reinstall it.. after several hours of work.. they came to the instruction and said there was a problem.. they could not get the transmission to install through the clutch.. they were putting it in backwards..
another group were assigned to remove the heads on a jag V12... those are GLUED on.. when they could not get them to budge.. they used a CHISEL between the aluminum block and the cylinder head.. they were supposed to use a big gear puller in the intake and exhaust ports to push down on one of the studs with a nut on top to protect it.. that jag got a V8 installed..
so you are NOT the first.. and won't be the last ..
so.. i am going to make a huge pun here...
if it don't fit... YOU MUST QUIT... and ask for help... stolen ruthlessly from the OJ Simpson trial.. johnny cochran was a customer at one gas station shop i worked in long ago.. he would bring his black rolls royce in for a wax job.. they let the new guy do it.. he managed to power compound right through the black paint on the top of the fenders right into the black primer that was a slightly different color..
please.... use a straight edge on the back of the block... verify the back of the block mounting area is NOT BENT...
please verify that there is about 0.003 to 0.007" of forward to rearward movement of the crank shaft in the block....
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440t4
Guru
| Posts: 869
| Joined: 04/09
Posted: 11/02/11 07:25 AM
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Most likely you just broke the inner pump gear. Open a cooling line and start it up.If you have no fluid coming out then pull the trans out and take the pump out. Your old one is probably still usable.But you can screw up changing pumps also. Take pictures and post them during the process and we will walk you through it.Don't run the engine too long or metal from the pump will get into the valve body and you will have another problem.
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Posted: 11/02/11 09:33 AM
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Thanks guys, I can't imagine breaking the transmission over something so simple. But I'll check the fluid coming from the cooler line today, any idea which one is the output??
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Posted: 11/03/11 05:27 PM
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Ok checked the oil pressure, nothing coming out of the cooler lines at all.. How long was I able to run that transmission before the lack of oil pressure destroys it?
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440t4
Guru
| Posts: 869
| Joined: 04/09
Posted: 11/03/11 05:59 PM
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No need to run it anymore. The only thing destroyed should be the pump itself. Pull the trans back out and then you will have to swap pumps if the pump from your original trans is ok. You should get a new front seal and pump o-ring. Hopefully the bushing in your old pump is good. You will have to post some pics of it.
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Posted: 11/03/11 09:39 PM
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Alright, time to put in another 30 hours.. I'll get started tomorrow.
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Posted: 11/20/11 10:29 PM
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Thanks all for the advice, the transmission ended up with metal shavings and some larger chunks. I decided not to try and install again. The used junk yard sent me another one and I installed it with success. HoWEVER, the drive plate was bent so I had to get another one.
When I installed the transmission the first time apparently I broke the pump and bent the drive plate by not having the TC installed properly AND forcing the transmission in.
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