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I seem to be having a problem getting the transmission & TC fitted onto the drive plate (flywheel). Everything bolts on fine, but once I torque the initial two lower transmission mounting bolts the BLACK METAL GASKET (between the drive plate and engine) seems to butt right up against the drive plate. So, when I go to turn the crankshaft the engine is locked up and I cannot even get the rest of the torque converter bolts on.


Yes, I double and triple checked that the torque converter is properly seated.
Yes, I torqued the transmission bolts precisely to specs. (47 ft lbs.)
Yes, I took off the whole transmission and TC and inspected the drive plate. When the transmission is off there is some clearance between the drive plate and the BLACK METAL GASKET, however the distance is not exact all the way around, nevertheless, there is some clearance.
Yes, the old transmission bolted on and the crankshaft turned fine (else I wouldn’t be able to get the TC bolts off).
Yes, when I loosen the transmission bolts and back the transmission back a little the crankshaft will turn, but then there’s a minute space left between the transmission and the engine!

Here are the specs on the vehicle: 1997 Toyota Corolla 1.6L base model, 3 speed automatic transmission (4AFE). Looks like the transmission I am installing has been recently rebuilt, it’s very clean and still has stickers.

Any help would be much appreciated, John A.
 

Take a very good look at the pilot on the torque converter.  Toyota's are one of the hardest to match up correctly (believe me, they are).  Measure the pilot length (that is in the center of the converter) and width.  Toyota has many different ones and I too have have had some problems with the supposed "right converter".  Also.....measure the hub length (part that goes into the transmission).  

Well ok, but if I did measure it, how am I supposed to determine if it's the right one or not? It looks the same as the old one. Haven't measured though. Should I put the old one back in?  

just curious..  could the flex plate be on backward????

with the starter out..    is the flex plate ring gear shoved into the block...

just a wild guess

something is NOT right.. there should be slight clearance between the flex plate and the torque converter bolt bosses... before the bolts are installed...

i am taking that you have the OLD transmission..   can you seat the converter.. lay a straight edge across the bell housing face.. see how far the torque converter bolt bosses are behind the straight edge...


can you drop the transmission again...

pull the torque converter...   use a magnet wand  down the center opening and verify some jack did not drop a NUT or bolt in there..  preventing the Torque converter from fully seating..  you might want to take a look in there incase its NOT magnetic..



any chance of the ID numbers off both transmissions ... and any id numbers off both torque converters.. or identification stickers or colors...  

I'll check tomorrow, shucks, this will be the 5th time I'm pulling it out!  

By the way, there's no way that flex plate is on backwards, the car was driven 300k miles until finally the transmission went out.  

i hope that you get this...

take the torque converter bolts out first...

see if it will slide back far enough to  spin ...

take a look at the distance from the edge of the flex plate gear to the back of the block through the starter opening???

one last thing.. i know that you have done this dozens of times... are those the proper torque converter bolts????

no chance that they are too tall and whacking the back of the block or the separator plate preventing the crank from turning...

the transmission should fit flush against the block.. without needing to torque the bolts..  there should be room between the face of the converter and the flex plate... when the bolts are out...

if the transmission has been forced into the back of the crank..  there is a chance that the transmission front pump or other internal parts might have been damaged... including debris in the Torque converter.. or broken stuff inside..

do you have a torque converter picture catalog .. they are available online..  

There's only one torque converter bolt as shown in the picture, I can't get the rest on because the crankshaft won't turn. That black torque bolt isn't effecting anything, I took it out with no avail.

It will not slide back far enough to spin, I have to take the whole transmission out first then pry the torque converter off the drive plate! It will not come out smoothly. On the other hand, when the TC is in the transmission it spins fine. The problem is the flex plate hitting that black metal piece.

Ok what about the flex plate to the engine measurement? What am I supposed to measure?

I am using the torque converter bolts that came with my old torque converter, which doesn't matter anyhow, because even with them out I can't spin anything..  

measuring...

transmission out..    flex plate on...

1.  through a torque converter bolt hole in the plate to the block separator plate..  if the plate is flat...  

2.  across the face of the transmission  bell housing.  to a torque converter pad...  


if 1.. is  an inch..

and 2 is an inch and 1/8..    then there should be 1/8" clearance between the back of the flex plate and the flat faces of the torque converter when installed..

if you are having problem seating the torque converter in the pilot hole in the back of the crank...

is there anything there.. any rust??? got a wire brush for your die grinder??? an old wheel cylinder hone.. you could hone just enough to remove the rust..  trial fitting the torque converter into the pilot..  see if it seats easily???  just the converter..

can you measure the diameter of the torque converter...

i noticed that there are some that are 9.875" and others are 10.25" in diameter.. and there are multiple pilot shapes..

with the converter out..   sitting on the work bench ..  opening up...  are both converters low stall or high stall???

how to tell the difference.. the upper half... the lines that bump out from the inside..  low stall units have the lines nearest the welded seam.. that are almost straight up...   | | | | | | | |     where the high stall units have  lines an more of an angle/ / / / / / /

there is also a difference in size and a slight difference in bolt pattern..

got pictures..????

i know this is a LOT.. but  i run into stuff that does not fit weekly.. so i go when someone calls to fix the UNFIXABLE..

i had one guy ask me how much to put a clutch in his hyundai ... when i told him.. he decided to do it him self..

when he had problems he called me up..  i went over and looked..  this car looked like it came from a demo derby already..  he said it was stuck in reverse..

when i opened the hood.. the owner had used longer bolts to mate the transmission to the engine block as they just would NOT align..   he drove the transmission input shaft and the main shaft into the case and out of the end of the case...  he did not know to align the clutch disc when installing it..  when i looked close.. he not only bend the bellhousing where the bolts were into the block.. but he actually bent the back of the block to meet the transmission..   he actually ask me i  could fix it..  and got mad when i said no..  i did point out the error of his ways..  i still see him driving his fiat 2000 rag top..  think 128 spider..

i personally have installed flexplates backwards and wondered why the starter would make noise.   but i was not the person who took it apart..

good night.. i will check in tomorrow morning.  i have some SAAB stories to repair on this fine saturday morning.. charging problems on a 88 900... the harmonic damper inertia ring has slipped off its rubber ring.. and is barely turning..  at least that car already has the AC compressor removed..  and i have to tear the top off a 2210 holley to see why the accelerator pump check valve pin is not sealing properly.. so when the throttle is moved.. the pin does not seal tight.. it allows air backwards into the pump passages so there is a dry shot before it gets a shot of fuel... that was interesting today.. as it backfired in the intake and set half the intake charge on fire..  the engine was still running on half the carb.. but running bad..  i tried closing the choke and it just fed the fire more fuel..  i managed to rev the engine up then snapped the throttle shut..  this leaned out the fuel and the vacuum put out the fire without it erupting through the venturi..   i was not looking forward to a carb fire today..  as my CO2 extinguisher is empty and all i had available was dry chemical..   so i avoided it all..  when you can hear the raging fire inside the intake over the sounds the engine was making..  you know you are in trouble..  

When you have the bell housing bolted tight to the engine can you turn the torque convertor easily? Maybe the convertor bolt pads are longer than the original ones.  

UPDATE: Just removed the torque converter and compared it to the old one.. They are IDENTIICAL..

Could I have a wrong transmission!??  

do you have both transmissions...

put the converters back in...   fully seat them...

place some straight item across the face.. .  measure in to see if the converters are both equally inserted...




 

Yes, I have both, I'll try that tomorrow. But obviously the new one may extended further then it should, what should I do then?  

check for debris inside..   where people could have dropped nuts and bolts down the opening in the converter..
preventing full insertion ..

use a magnet on a wand first..  PLEASE verify that the magnet will NOT pull out..

some of the ones with orange color have pulled loose on me..

if it comes out.. use some superweather strip adhesive under the magnet..  then put the magnet back in.. let it set for 30 minutes before using ..

i don't want you loosing a magnet into the torque converter..

things could be NON magnetic.. some kind of shop rag.. a plug...

my brother in law got a rebuild engine a few decades ago... it made all kind of noises when he went to start it..   i used a copper tube through the spark plug holes and vacuumed out multiple ball cones that are used in tumbling parts cleaners... somebody tossed them into the engine some how..

the engine builder denied they even used them.. except i know my in law had no access to them.. and i knew a guy who worked there previously..  and verified that they used them ..

who spiked the engine???  a disgruntled employee?? a kid playing.. somebody tossing them across the shop?????

i think i pulled 11 out of 4  cylinders on the left bank..

 

There's nothing inside the TC, how do I know this? I performed the above measurement and it was right in specs. The torque converter is seated properly. However, I guess the measurement on the flex plate may be out of specs.. I'll have to verify this tomorrow.