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So what should I be doing ? Pull the crank pulley off?  

with the belt off.. engine off..   gentle prying on the outer ring with your hand on the front face to see if the outer moves any in relation to the inner..  shows that the damper is bad..

if the entire damper moves forward  you will have to figure a way to push the crank back..  or knock it back with a block of wood..

that looks like if you had a harmonic damper puller.. after you got the crank center bolt out..  that a visit to a decent hardware store could get you a replacement bolt for the center of the puller..  and a pair of jam nuts..   put the bolt through the puller in the wrong direction as you would think...   from the damper side.. so you have a hex head.. run it through..   then use two jam nuts locked together on the other side..  you can then use this is a close space...

you will also want to identify the crank bolt threads.. if its an inch thread.. or sometimes a metric.. you may want to get a bolt that is about 3/4 inch longer than the factory bolt.. so you can use that to partially install the damper..

if you try in most cars with the factory bolt it won't have enough threads engaged and will strip the end of the crank out.  

If it's a bad dampener (or same as the Harmonic balancer(?)), then that is replaceable? Or is it a pulley-dampener decent hardware store nearby to get the grade 8 or better bolts.  

How bad does it look? Think driving it another 200 miles would be ok? Like to tear it down next weekend.
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Not driving it anymore until I solve the problem  

Here's a close up of the crank pulley. There are cracks on the outside. Is that the possible problem?



 

i pulled one off a ford six a few months back.. that had lost the rubber.. the engine was running. but the inertia ring was only held in place by the belt..  there was NO rubber left..

i swapped on a different damper last week on a saab 900.. that also had the belt on the outside like the ford six and your jeep does..  it was slipping but staying in place..  

i cannot tell if its slipping from the pictures..    you could also take a timing light under the jeep.. with it hooked to one wire or the coil wire.. so you get a freeze frame flashing.. see what moves.. the outer ring.. or the entire damper and crank...  

Good IDEA. I have the belt off and going thru the different pulleys. Just from tugging on it, the water pump, the AC, power steering unit, idler , alternator all seem ok. The fan seems ok but a little forward? I'm going to pull off the fan and see what is there. What else could cause that belt moving ?

Is the rubber actually fully separating the crank and the pulley?  

the inner hub and the outer inertia ring are separated by rubber only...

without the rubber. there is about a 1/4" gap...  if you move the center to one side..  

So the inner and outer are separate pieces. I thought they were pinned together but actually are a 3 piece part. Inner puley, Rubber, and then the  Outer Ring for holding the belt. I'm getting the idea what to look for.  

you have the belt off... stick it around the crank pulley.. see if the outer twists around without turning the crank...


i am sorry now i tossed the saab damper. i was going to do a movie of it.. as it looks perfect.. but i could turn the inside with my bare fingers while holding the outside..


you could put a paint mark where the damper mark is..  continue to the center section..    start the engine..  with the timing light on the damper.. you can run the engine for about a minute without the water pump.. but NOT longer than that..

see if the damper outer ring stays in position of the inner ring.. with the timing light on ONE spark plug wire. you should be able to see any movement  

I found a sight that talks about noises sounding like rod knocking etc.
http://www.ehow.com/how_8060079_harmonic-balancer-bad.html


  1. Inspect the harmonic balancer to see if the rubber is uneven with the metal pieces of the balancer. If the rubber squishes out, the balancer needs replacing before it comes apart completely. Replace it as soon as possible.
2.  Listen for a knocking noise. A bad balancer makes a knocking noise that sounds like a rod knock. As the engine revolutions speed up, so does the knocking noise.
3. Start the engine and let it idle. Watch the balancer. It has a small amount of wobble if it is good, but the wobble increases if the rubber starts to separate. The more the rubber separates from the metal in the balancer, the harder the wobble. Slowly increase the engine revolutions per minute (rpm) -- working the throttle by hand -- and watch the balancer. If it wobbles or starts to knock at the higher engine rpm, replace the balancer.
I have been getting a louder knocking sound.  

Going to try the belt and move the pulley now.  

Wrapped the belt and pulled. Tight. I grabbed the pulley and feel some play in it. I was able to move the pulley some and the whole thing turned together. Did not see any separate movement from the inner or outer ring. Of course, that is not under any horsepower. I will check the actual fan pulley.  

incase you missed my edit.. i sometimes come back and add text.. or images without updating..

add some paint marks.. to the damper ring and to the center..


start the engine.. with the timing light shooting at the paint marks..


reread post at 10;21 PM  

I did get the post on the timing light. Add paint marks to the inner ring, outer ring, and the rubber and see if there is movement between them. Good idea.
I just took off the fan and the pulley to see if there is anything noticeable there. Looked ok. However the idler seems a little rough turning but not wobbly or out of round. I did buy an idler and will go ahead and install it. After I put it back together, I'll try the timing light idea. Even without a timing light, if I mark the pulley and run the car, I still should see the lines on all 3 still lined up when the engine is turned off? Right?