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I recently got a 'bug in my bonnet' and have decided to buy a convertible.  I have narrowed the field from 4 (VW Eos, Toyota Solara, Mustang GT  and the Pontiac G5) to the last two. I know, how am I supposed to compare a mustang and the little known G5!  Its like apples and oranges!  Took them both for a ride - completely different feel - but both were fun.  My requirements are 1) convertible - reasonably priced 2) need backseat - mom of 2 kids 3).... wow, was going to list more but thought about it.  Those are the only two REAL requirements I have! I have spent the last week reading everything I could on these two cars and I am still waffling!  
G5 doesn't have much of a reputation for being well built and I dont see many of them (good/bad IDK!)  Good backseat for a convertible and has a hardtop.  Probs seem to be with hardtop and lotsa rattle complaints. But minor stuff as far I can see.  Overall, I got the feeling it is a kinda ho-hum-mom car.  May be just what I need tho.
Mustang - great name, fun factor high but backseat is minimal (my friend said not to think about the kids, HA!).  Ragtop instead of hard top.  Mustang forums have very little on the complaint side and more so 'how do I upgrade?' questions.
Both are about the same $ with all options I want, but I just camt make up my mind.
Any advise is welcome, thanks.
Les  

The first thing I notice when I read your post is that you assume the Mustang is "fun."  Think again.  I'm assume you're looking at a V6 mustang.  Sure, the name is famous, and the latest mustangs are smartly styled.  That where the the mustang goodness ends, especially if you're looking at a V6 mustang.  The car isn't particularly fast, doesn't handle particularly well, and, I think, has a just-plain-bad interior.  I drove a pretty basic V6 model recently, and despite chrome ringed gauges and fake aluminum plastic here and there, the interior is basically a huge wall of awful plastic that makes the car feel cheap.  Add to that the fact that it has a less-than-stellar reputation for reliability, and a useless back seat (for when your kids get bigger), and I can't see any reason why you'd be happy with  Mustang unless you really wanted a more expensive V-8 powered version that's genuinely fast.  

When you speak of the G5, I assume you mean the G6, as the G5 is nothing more than a rebadged Chevy cobalt.  The G6 is, actually, a decent car.  I'm not sure what price range you're looking at, but if the VW Eos and Toyota Solara are similarly priced, I's pick those over the Pontiac.  I have plenty of driving time in a regular 4 door G6 sedan, and while it's a huge step forward for GM, it's not up to par with VW and Toyota.  The G6 I'm familiar with has some serious quality issues, including a horribly rattly interior, a suspension that's too stiff to be comfy, and too floppy to be sporty (the worst of both worlds), and an engine/transmission combination that, while adequately quick and efficient, makes the VW's drivetrain look like warp drive by comparison.  There's no doubt that the G6 looks plenty sexy, and will go about its business adequately for most drivers.  But if the price is similar, a VW Eos is more refined, faster, more sporting, and better made.  

Which brings me to the Toyota Solara.  OK, it's an aging design that's been around for a while.  BUT, your primary criteria is convertible and room for kids.  By that limited criteria, I assume that you also want no-nonsense reliability, straight forward driving dynamics, plenty of power, and a wee-bit of luxury to complement the convertible pizzaz.  IN that case, I think the Solara is perfect.  It's engineered from Tried-and-true Camry parts (suspension, frame, engine etc), is big enough for a reasonable back seat, has a punchy engine, and an unexpectedly upscale interior.  It's leagues ahead of the G6 if you don't count the hardtop advantage, and it's probably more reliable than the Eos.  

So basically, the G6 won't make you hate yourself.  But an Eos is a better car, and if the hard-top thing isn't a major issue, a Solara might just be the perfect one for you.  

Thank you speed for the info, lots to think about. I should clarify some particulars tho.  
The Mustang - I was looking at the V8 but not sure I need that much power.  The dash (as far as I can remember) does look a little chincy, but looking back, I guess I was happy to get into something clean!  Darn kids, ... did you know you gotta feed them ALL THE TIME!?!   I also had no idea about the 'less than stellar' rep.  Big things to think of.  Thanks for the tip.

G5 oops G6 I mean - I have read lots about rattles, shimmies, cowl (HUH?) etc along with probs with the vert.  Those are my biggest concern with it. I won't be racing the car and am not sure if I can tell how stiff a suspension/drivetrain should be, so that may not be a factor. I do however live within walking distance to the dealer and know the head mechanic over there thru my husband.  That's an up point, isn't it? My sister also sells auto newspaper ads and knows this dealer, among others, well (she gets a new car every two years and has a Solara right now.) and can probably get me a good deal on this car.  Hardtop is GREAT selling point, no garage.

VW Eos - I am really hesitant with VW.  Owned a Superbeetle growing up and did most all my own work on it and loved it. but with the new engines I have no idea what to do (could be I am getting older, and have no interest and more capital to work with now) My mechanic has told me he 'would like to see me in something else'  He doesn't care for the electrical probs and harder to work on, more expensive etc.  I kinda have to take his opinion into account seeing as I really don't want to eat crow later.  

Solara - sis has had it for 2 years and is somewhat happy, but - of course - getting bored with it.  She was looking at the Mustang and Pontiac too.  I have nothing against Toyota, I think I just want something different.  Of the 4, Solara has the best rep and is proven.

Anyway, sorry about the length of this, tried to explain my self a little better.  Will reconsider Solara and maybe drop the Mustang thing. I am still leaning toward G6 but plan to have sis drive for a coupla days and see what she thinks (they let her do that at the dealership   ).  Thank you for the input.  I guess I have lots more to think about!
Leslie  

http://www.convertiblecarmagazine.com/news.htm

These are some "realy nice" convertibles...  

Cowl shake is the visible movement of the front of the car (usually most noticeable at the windshield frame) caused by too much chassis flexibility.  The Chassis of a car should be rock-solid so that the suspension can do its job without having to deal with the body it's mounted to moving about.  Cowl shake is also uncomfortable, especially over really sharp impacts like bad rail crossings, and tends to loosen up interior bits to the point that they begin to rattle at all times.

But here's the thing: ALL convertibles have Cowl shake because a solid roof is a fundamental part of any car's structure.  Remove it, and even with reifnorcement of the floor structure, a convertible will shake a bit.  So, after all that, I still can't tell you which convertibles shake more than others, except that the mustang shakes a lot.  I simply can't remember what the automotive press has said about the G6 and others in recent comparison tests.  IF you want, I can search for it.  

I think that, in the long run, you'll probably be happy with the G6.  IF you're in love with the styling, and it's "just right" size, you'll be reminded of that every time you drive it.  But, be prepared to deal with some quality issues; my friend's G6, as mentioned, has had a few odd issues, including door handles that pull right out of their mounts.  Having connections at a nearby dealer, however, could make up for it.  

Speed, thanks for the schooling on cowl, it made perfect sense to me - layman that I am!  

I have tried a few comparisons online, but unfortunately, I am not a techie and most specs make no sense to me.  I understand some, but when it comes to torque (get up and go?) suspension, brakes etc., my eyes start to glaze over - as you can see with the cowl thing.  I also am not having much luck with the G6 on comparisons, no info on 08 and little on 07.  I have also lost my connection at the dealership - I think - and that may be a mitigating factor here.

My mechanic did mention that I should check the dealership reputation.  I have tried to do just that, to no avail.  Sure, they have info on themselves, but I can't seem to find customer vantage points.  If you know of some site that I can do this with, let me know.  I'm a little frustated with it!  I KNOW there has got to be something out there in the intangible www, it is just that going about finding it is becoming infuriating!

Your info has been invaluable. I really appreciate all the help you have imparted to me.  Last thing I want to do is go to the dealership and ask all this stuff. I am sure they would be polite and answer all these questions I have, but I think they would only be hearing  z  z  z  z  ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz - (the sound of line peeling off a reel by the yard!)

JGATE - went to that sight and unless I am totally incompetent (which I hate to think I am!) I couldn't find either the Solara or the G6.  The ones I did look at however are going to require a bit more money and a few less kids!  Thanks for the help, I will go there when I feel like torchuring myself!  
Leslie  

Leslazz, pick out some technical stuff that you're confused about and let me know, I'd be happy to explain anything.  

As for the usual tech-specs that you'll find on an online comparison sheet, such as torque, Horsepower, trasmission speeds, etc, here's a basic analysis.

Torque is the literal twisting force that the engine imparts on the transmission, which is imparted on the wheels. It's expressed in "foot pounds" or sometimes, "pounds per foot."    The more torque, the more "force" you feel while accelerating.  Horsepower is a measurment of energy exerted by the engine, in this case torque over time.  The thing is, torque and HP are purely academic numbers unless you take into account the transmission's ability to put that power to the ground.  

So let's take a basic example.  A bicycle might have 10 speeds.  If you need to accelerate quickly, you select "low" gears, in which you pedal fast, but go slowly.  This give you a "mechanical advantage"--your fast pedaling propels the bike with great power, but you can only go as fast as your legs can pump.  So, you upshift to a higher gear and keep pedaling, and keep accelerating.  Humans have very low-powered legs, and so need 10, 18, or 24 gears on their bikes to make sure that there's always a gear available for the right conditions.  An automotive engine is much more powerful, and so only needs 4, 5 or 6 gears.  


So, figure that, for this purely academic pursuit, all of the cars your considering have a top speed of 120 MPH.  So, a 4 speed transmission must have only 4 gears that can cover the full range, so maybe first gear tops out at 50 mph, second at 80, third at 100, and fourth at 120.  Great, but the gears are spaced so far apart from eachother, the engine must have enought torque (twisting force) over come the mechanical disadvantage of a very "tall" first and second gear.  It's like starting out in "high" gear on a bike.  This is the Pontiac G6. It has a very big, very torquey engine, but it's high-geared 4 speed automatic puts at an an immediate disadvantage.  As a result, it's not as fast as it SHOULD be given its big, torquey engine.  

The Toyota has a smaller, though nearly equally torquey engine.  But it has the advantage of a 5 speed automatic, and thus, has gear ratios that are closer.  For example, first might top out at 40, second at 70, third at 90, and fourth at 120..thus leaving fifth for extra fuel economy at any speed.

The VW has the most sophisticated engine and transmission combination.  Its turbo charged engine produces the least amount of HP and torque, BUT the maximum torque ( and thus the maximum accelerative force that you feel) is available throughout the engine's entire speed range.  In other words, it makes it's maximum power when the engine is nearly at idle speed (if you're flooring it).  Plus it has a 6 speed transmission, which drops the ratios to , say 30 MPH in first, 60 in second, 80 in third, and so on.  The result is that it feels just as fast, if not faster, than the other cars.  

Anyway, I suspect I've done exactly what your dealer would have....that is inspired z z z z z ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz.  

And the fact is that torque, Horsepower, or 6 speed transmissions aren't going to make or break your decision on your convertible.  Academically, I don't like the engineering that's present in the G6, I respect the engineering in the Solara, and I adore the engineering in the VW.  But, we don't drive cars for academic satisfaction.  So tell me exactly what it is that you want in your convertible, and exactly what engineering/convenience/reliability/fuctionality concerns you have with these cars, and perhaps I can be of more use than I have.  After all, do you really want a G6 any less because it has a 4 speed transmission?  

WOW Speed, where you an automechanic high school teacher at one time?  You explain everything so visually and your analogy with the bike was equally inspired too!  (I just started to glaze over when I read "So let's take a basic example."  I felt like I was in school all over again!)  Shoulda taken auto mech instead of home ec, would have used that info a lot more often - I can live without knowing how to make a wraparound skirt and bake a cake from scratch!

I drove my sis' 04 Solara this morning and the engine/power/shifting seems tight and plenty of torque for a mom like me.  If I remember right, the G6 seemed very similiar at least as far as shifting smoothly, pick-up, drivability (is that a word?) goes.  We drove to Santa Cruz yesterday in the Element and I white knuckled highway 17 (would have loved to be driving either convertible on that road rather than my car!).  If you are familiar with this road, I it hardly compares to 49 between 50 and 80 but still a little hairy on passing/corners.  As an aside, someone could make big bucks if they opened a vomitorium on both ends of that part of 49 and sell toothbrushes and paste for 10 bucks a piece! You may laugh, but I'm seriously considering retiring up there!  Sorry, back on track.... I counted 5 Solaras and 2 G6 coupes pass us on the way. Both body types were close in style, the Solara beating the G6 on front end looks, but pretty close.  So my concerns are listed in order of importance to me below:

#1)  Reliability - Since there is little info on the '08 G6 and the '07 seems to have lots of minor 'bugs' that I don't know have been addressed in the '08, I think both will be good cars (This is where the dealer rep/support comes in - see below)  BTW, you are right about the 4 speed vs. 5 speed tranny, I don't think it will make that much difference to me.  I know that the resale on Solara would be higher but I am not a resale concerned customer (maintain it and drive it till it dies!)  However, the resale is indicitive of the reliabilty of the car and since G6 convertible came out in 05/06 they don't have a tried and true rep yet...  Solara 1 point

#2)  Engine/power/transmission:  Both seem similiar with Solara understandably slightly better (thanks again for info)... Solara/G6 even

#3) Service department - Still trying to find out service dept reputations for both dealers.  Both within walking distance of my home.  They are literally next door to each other... Solara/G6 even - still researching

#4)Convenience - The G6 has this hands down, for me anyway.  Hard-top is a big plus because I have no garage.  Two weeks ago my daughter forgot to lock my Element and some kids got into my car and stole my portable GPS and all the silver out of my change compartment (brats!)  This is a fairly nice neighborhood and up until that happened, I wouldn't have even thought twice about a ragtop... G6 1 point

#5)  Comfort - again, both seem very similiar.  Plenty of room for the 4 of us and both seem to have all the bells and whistles.  Solara does have new techie advantages (MP3, voice activated Nav, bluetooth, etc) but honestly, I won't use these features as much as most people, soooo... Solara/G6 even again

#6)  Cost - I am looking at about a $1500 difference (Solara being the pricier of the two) after the options I want in both.  This is not including extended warranties.  I can't seem to price those online... Solara/G6 even with G6 having the advantage.

So Speed if I boil these advantages down they are almost head to head even.  I guess I have to decide how important the hardtop is and how reliable the G6 will turn out to be.  Do you have a crystal ball in your vast bag of tricks for that??

Thanks for your help and advice, sorry I am so wordy, but have no clue how to get my point across any other way.

Leslie  

OK, great!     Took my husband to go look at both.  He didnt even want to test drive the pontiac G6, "looks cheap, and looks like a pontiac" both not good comments.  Solara we took for a drive, he said it was "the high end of the lower end convertibles and felt kinda like it", but that it could do, he has to run the numbers (CPA) I guess he was saying you get what you pay for.

He told me to start researching the next level up in convertibles and as far as I can see that is the Volvo C70 and then the BMW.  Is that what you get Speed?  Any recommendations?  

Thanks, Leslie  

If you're gonna be looking at the next higher strata of convertibles, then great, because the 3 or 4 desirable options there are MUCH nicer than the Solara, and G6.  

The next level up is the $40-50,000 price range, which, unfortunately, is a pretty big step up from the Solara and G6, which seem to top out not much over $30K.  But if that's doable, you'll be driving a VERY nice car.  

I'd look at the Audi A4 cabriolet, the Volvo C70, the BMW 3-series convertible, and if the budget stretches enough, the Mercedes CLK 350 convertible.  All of these cars are very good, but they all have very different styling and personality, so what appeals to me might not appeal to you.  But here's my take:

The Volvo C70 is a GOOD car.  I drove a friend's recently, and was impressed with it's GOODness.  But not its greatness.  That's not to say there's anything wrong with it whatsoever.  In fact, for people who want the utterly logical, ergonomic, and mild-mannered approach to driving that the Swedes do so well, I can't think of a better car.  Everything about it is clean, from the exterior lines, to the interior ergonomics, to the way its engine, transmission, and steering works invisibly.  It's Toyota Camry goodness with Volvo class and luxury.  Down to the nitty-gritty, its 2.5L 5 cylinder engine makes 230 HP (Or something close, I'm too lazy to look it up), and has a quick-spooling turbo so the torque comes on early, and gives the car punchy acceleration, although it's nothing to write home about.  The hardtop is great, of course, but as with all hardtops, check out the trunk when the top is down.  I recall the hardtop eats up basically the ENTIRE trunk.  

The Audi, I think, is an underappreciated option.  It's not a hardtop, so that's one thing to consider.  But I think the subtle exterior and rich interior ooze class and warmth in a way that even the more expensive BMW and Mercedes can't match.  To me Audi interiors are the benchmark to which all other interiors should be compared.  From the symmetry of the shapes, to judicious (read, not overused) use of wood and metal trim, to the soothing deep red glow of the nigh-time lighting, Audis make drivers feel welcome in a way that only VW (which owns Audi) can come close to.  Otherwise, the Audi is undistinguished in its performance.  It's not slow, nor does it handle poorly. But it's not measurably better than its competition.  The standard 2.0L turbo engine is small, but packs a big punch for its size (200 HP and a touch more torque), but like the Volvo, spools the turbo quickly for maximum torque at low RPM.  The 6 speed automatic makes the most of the power.  It's also available with AWD, which is not the case with any of the other cars.    And if you want a bit more power, the V6 option gives it a bit more acceleration, though the difference isn't as big as you'd think.

The BMW is my personal favorite, but mostly because I value superior handling and mechanical sophistication over most other things.  The Bimmer is expensive; expect to pay in the mid $40's for a reasonably equipped model, and upwards of $50 for all the goodies like GPS naviation, the powerful turbo engine, etc.  I also find the 3 series to be a stunningly good-looking car when in coupe and convertible form, and the hardtop is icing on the cake.  BMWs have a way of convering anyone who drives them into die-hard fans.  While cold to the touch at first (their interiors are pretty sterile), they have a mechanical prowess that is plainly evident to even tho most non-enthusiastic drivers.  From the smoothness of their inline 6 engines, to the perfect balance of ride and handling, to the way they pour themselves around corners at ridiculous speed when you REALLY need to move fast, the BMW is the only genuine performance-oriented option.  But they don't sacrifice performance for comfort; I find BMW seats to be quite excellent.  The standard 328 convertible comes with a 230HP inline 6 engine with 200 lb/ft of torque.  It's one of the only cars left that actaully has quite a bit less torque than HP.  That means that the engine likes to rev harder than others to provide similar acceleration, which would be a problem if it weren't a BMW.  THe fact is that BMW transmissions (A 6 speed in this case, i think) are very intelligent, and the engines sound so good, and rev so smoothly, you won't miss the torque.  And if you must have more power, BMW offers an incredible 3 Liter twin turbo engine that makes 300HP and 300 lb/ft of torque...at, get this, 1200 RPM!!!  (Most normal engines make their torque peak between 3000 and 4000 RPM, and most turbo engines can't muster lower than 1800).  Get that, and you'll outrun every obnoxious bass-pumping punk who rolls up next to you at the stoplight in a loud Mustang or Camaro, ya know, if that's your thing.  

The Mercedes CLK is my least favorite.  It's really expensive, starting above $50,000, and it doesn't offer more of anything.  OK, its 260-something HP V6 is pretty powerful, and I'm pretty sure it has a crazy 7 speed automatic transmission, but still, it's not dynamically superior, more luxurious, more stylish, or more reliable than any of the other cars.  Only consider this car if you MUST have a Merc, or if you find that it drives more solidly than the others, which is very well might.

My recommendation?  Drive them all and see that you think.  I don't have enough experience living with these cars (a bit out of my price range) to offer useful information like trunk space, back seat space and convenience, or reliability.  All have reputations for generally solid reliability, but in this price class, maintenance and repairs can be very expensive.  Note, however, that BMW comes with 4 years and 50,000 miles of FREE maintenance that includes everything from oil changes, brakes, and most other "wear" items that are usually not covered by other warranties.  

OK Speed, thanks for your info.  I have now found out that I AM working with a budget, and it only took me two weeks to figure it out!  Jim (my hubby) busted out laughing when I told him about the starting range of the CLK. So I guess thats out.... (lol)

The Audi looks good online and with the info you gave me about it, I would be interested.  However, since we have stepped up the price, we both decided that it would be wise to buy exactly the car I want, hardtop and all.  I will keep that one in mind anyway if I decide the hardtop is not a mitigating factor.

The Volvo C70, I went to pick up a brochure on it and had the salesman open/close the top, trunk etc.  Coupla things I wasn't impressed with; the trunk space is small, but not as minimal as you may think.  When the top is down, it stores above an area that I could fit my a couple of gym bags in with some room to spare. With a press of a button, the top lifts up a few inches for access to that area.  Thats why it looks like there is no room.  The back seat has a center hump (the place where the drive train runs underneath??) that is large and looks like it takes up a lot of leg room (my huge dog may not be able to go on family outings comfortably any more).  Volvo does have a 7500 mile service , but as far as I can tell, it's just the one service and doesn't cover any of the wear items BMW does.  Pretty car tho, I haven't discounted it yet.  AND, oh, BTW... they will send you over to Sweden to see your car being made, put you up for a night, tour the factory, drive around then drop off the car and they will ship it back for you.  It's right in their brochure!  Wouldn't that be neat?  Alas, what I do with those pesky kids???? (sigh) dilemmas, dilemmas...

The BMW I am going to go check out today.  Jim is a CPA for a certified service/used car BMW guy up here and I have a call into him.  He may be able to help me out with some pricing etc.  The more I read about the BMW the more I appreciate the car (yes I am looking at the 6cyl, 328i, good info there, Speed) I do like the maintenance advantage it has over the Volvo too.

At this point, I have narrowed it down to just the two: Volvo and BMW, but on the back burner is still the Solara in case our cash comfort level drops down again.  Haven't driven either yet, just took a look and grabbed a brochure.  I will wait until Jim can come along for the ride. - no pun intended!

Thanks for the info and time you have spent, I really do appreciate your opinion.  And it is soooo much easier to take when I agree with mostly everything you say too!

Have a great day, Leslie  

i really like this article, i am a porche fan
but i think that we need more changes in porche cars, because
lately all cars are changing so fast


want to know more about porche cars

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/sports_cars/porsche_cars.html



and lately i am into hibryd cars
if you want to compare some hybrid cars there are some cool articles in this site.
hibrid cars
sport hibrid cars
and how they function

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/hybrid_cars/hybrid_sports_cars.html

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/hybrid_cars/hybrid_sports_cars.html  

i really like this article, i am a porche fan
but i think that we need more changes in porche cars, because
lately all cars are changing so fast


want to know more about porche cars

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/sports_cars/porsche_cars.html



and lately i am into hibryd cars
if you want to compare some hybrid cars there are some cool articles in this site.
hibrid cars
sport hibrid cars
and how they function

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/hybrid_cars/hybrid_sports_cars.html

http://www.mostvaluabletips.com/autos/hybrid_cars/hybrid_sports_cars.html  

leslazz, I'm not sure why the volvo has a hump in the middle of the back seats.  Although the S40, on which the C70 is based, is available with AWD, the C70 is not, and anyway, the C40 doesn't have the hump.  As a front-drive car, the C70 has no drivetrain components aft of the engine compartment.  I suspect that the hump covers a structural reinforcement.  All convertibles have some sort of structural reinforcement to make of the for the lack of a structural roof.  Equally as likely, the folding roof mechanism and structural reinforcement alongside the side of the car make the back seat too narrow for three abreast, so the center hump serves to more deeply sculpt the remaining two seats for greater comfort, while also providing a bit of an arm rest.  

You may also be interested to know that, as far as I know, BMW also offers a European delivery program in which you visit the factory, see your car built, and test drive it on the Autobahns.  My friend will by flying in from out of town tomorrow, and his dad just bought a C70. We'll no doubt be tooling around in it over the next week, and if you want, I can offer some opinions about it.  Good luck car shopping, and let me know if you have any more questions.  

Good Speed, it will be nice to get first hand opinions on the C70.  I look forward to it.  As far as the 'hump' goes, BMW has the same thing.  It is like the front center console is extened back at about the same height.  I didnt notice it in the Solara, but it could be there too, maybe just not as noticeable.  I will double check on that.

BMWs european delivery sounds quite similiar to Volvo's.  I didnt really get into that as I just picked up a pamphlet and glanced at their 328i coupe.  

Have a great time visiting your with your friend.  Have fun with the C70 too, let me know what you think.  I am hoping to do some test driving myself on Sunday (fingers crossed).  Maybe I will have some questions for you after that!

Leslie