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Greetings! I'm shopping for a car that may not exist. My requirements list isn't long, but it's hard to find them on the same car.

1) Absurdly comfortable front seats. I'm 6'2" and get back pain whenever I drive any of my current cars for more than 30-60 minutes. I "only" weigh 190, but have long legs for someone by height.

2) Good winter traction. We live in rural New England and have a 400-foot sloped gravel driveway. 4WD isn't a requirement (our FWD Passat is adequate for example), but better ground clearance would be great (our current cars frequently scrape on the dirt roads around here -- including one recent event that broke TWO catalytic converters).

3) Great gas mileage. As you can tell from the fact that one of our cars runs on waste vegetable oil (see below), we care a lot about reducing emissions. This is actually more important, to us, than fuel savings. That is, we don't mind paying $5,000 extra for a car that will save us only $3,000 in gas costs over the life of the vehicle.

3a) Manual transmission. I have never owned an automatic and I don't like them. They have worse mileage and I don't enjoy them as much (I also like how manuals force me to pay attention to my driving -- neither my wife nor I have ever had an accident in over 30 combined years driving 5-speeds).

I've heard that the Prius has surprisingly good leg-room, but all our driving is rural -- so a hybrid doesn't seem like the right technology. I also hate automatics.

I have a friend with a 5-cylinder Volvo wagon -- she says she gets 35 MPG highway. I haven't tried driving it, but perhaps this is the best combo of the above choices.

I'm also looking at SUV options (Ford? Honda?), because I notice my back hurts a lot less in vehicles (like our pickup truck) with an 'upright' seating position.

I sat in my stepmother's Subara Forester for a few minutes and I'm pretty sure the front seat is too cramped. Same with the few minutes I spent in a Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

For reference, these are our current/recent cars, and what we liked and didn't like:

a) 1987 Nissan Sentra (2-door). My first car, but I soon realized that driving it was like jabbing an ice pick in my lower back. My father-in-law was a mechanic so we ripped out the front seat and drilled some more holes in the seat frame so that it could go farther back (to the point that no one could fit in the back seat). This was a great solution, but not one that makes sense for me any more.

b) 1996 VW Golf. Another great car. Suprisingly comfortable front seats.

c) 1999 Nissan Frontier Pickup Truck. Great reliable pickup truck, but somewhat cramped seating, and not a good all-around vehicle for a 3-person family.

d) 1999 VW Jetta Diesel, with a "GreaseCar" kit to run on waste vegetable oil. Starting to show it's age -- less reliable than the Japanese cars I've owned. Horrible winter traction, and less comfortable than the Golf.

e) 2000 VW Passat 6-cylinder. The weight helps gives this car much better snow traction than the Jetta, but it's mileage is poor, and the front seat is the LEAST comfortable of any car I've ever owned. Alas, I didn't notice this in the 20-minute test drive.

I would love feedback from other people like me, who've had trouble finding a comfortable car. I really wish the dealers would let me test-drive a car for a day (or a week) so I could truly assess whether the car was suitable for long drives.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Clay  

You've posed quite a challenge for yourself, and for good reason.  FINALLY, someone wants a car that's sensible, capable, AND socially responsible.

First a word about EPA ratings.  As you may or may not know, EPA testing procedures changed for the 2008 model year to reflect more realistic estimates.  As a result, ALL 2008 cars, even if they've had no changes from the 2007 model year, get lower EPA ratings.  So if you're used to finding midsize-sedans with 22/30 MPG city/hwy ratings, expect 20/27 or so for 2008, even though the car may be identical to the previous year.

Unfortunately, I'm not like you, and don't have trouble finding a comfortable car.  Actaully, I find the Passat's seats to be unusually comfy, especially for long-hauls.  They're soft, yet supportive enough to leave me fatigue-free after a few hours behind the wheel.

So I'll have to leave the seat thing alone, except for one thing: Volvos.  Every time I sit in a modern volvo, I'm highly impressed with how comfortable the seats are--and i'm not the only one.  Volvo's are known for meticulously designed seats that are usually comfortable for all shapes and sizes. But a volvo won't be any less polluting or efficient than a similarly sized, similarly powerful car.  Your friend who claims 35 MPG from her 5 cyl. volvo is either exaggerating, or not calculating properly.  The only way I can think of that your friend achieves 35 MPG hwy is a) she only ever drives down hill, b) she only ever cruises at 55 MPH or below on the highway, c) she's calculating her mileage at the gas pump by dividing her tank mileage by her total fuel tank capacity (instead of gallons pumped per fillup), or d) she's estimating her mileage by occasionally glancing at the "instant MPG" (as apposed to "average MPG) readout on her trip computer.  I find this  last error common.  A friend, who drives a 2003 VW GTi with the gas-guzzling 2.8L VR6 was convinced he was getting 5 MPG in the city and 40 MPG on the highway.  I drove his car and found that he had his trip computer set to "instant MPG," which, sure enough, plummeted to 5 MPG while accelerating, and 40 MPG while cruising in 6th gear, down hill, at 70 MPH.  But a single button press revealed an average of 24 MPG.  

Anyway, the latest volvos, and indeed, Volvos of the past few years, are not particularly efficient.  They're comfy, sensible, and are all available with AWD. They get acceptable gas mileage for their size/power, and if that's what you want, then I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with one.  Let me know if you want more info on the Volvos.  

So back to this challenging search.  I love diesels--a stay in Europe a few years ago allowed me to sample a few diesel rentals, and they were fantastic.  Alas, the only makers that offer them here are VW, Mercedes, and the "big three" pickup trucks.  The obvious diesel choice here is the VW jetta, which will very shortly be available with a rather potent Diesel that shares the "bluetec" emissions controls and urea injection with the Mercedes diesels.  It's no secret that Jettas do not have a particularly glowing reliability record, so you may want to do some research about the new models.  Dynamically, however, the new Jettas are a huge improvement over the old ones, with a great interior and standard traction/stability control that should help out a bit with winter driving.  

So that leaves everything else.  If you include such criteria as AWD, a bit of extra ground clearance, and an available manual transmission, then just as you suspect, there is no car meeting those criteria AND exceptional gas mileage, so let's eliminate one criterion at a time and explore the options.  

-Minus extra ground clearance/AWD:
The latest generation of "subcompacts" are a marvel of space efficiency, fuel efficiency, and modern comfort.  Check out the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, and Scion xD.  All three are hatch-back designs that make the most of their small size--basically, they don't feel small or "subcompact" at all.  the Honda fit is endowed with a surprisingly sporting chassis, a willing and efficient engine (EPA city/hwy deep into the mid-high 30's), and excellent interior utility.  With a manual, it's actaully plenty quick, especially if you're used to a 1999 Jetta Diesel.  Topping out a bit over $16K, it's affordable, yet expensive-feeling on the inside, with interior materials and designs that wouldn't look out of place in an inexpensive Acura.  The Nissan Versa looks like it could have come out of a Renault design studio, which makes sense since renault owns Nissan.  Personally, I like it, and while the interior and driving dynamics aren't nearly as sporty as the Fit, they're also a bit more spacious and upscale.  Topping out around $17K, the Versa is available with all sorts of good stuff including bluetooth connectivity.  It's not as efficient as the Fit, but also feels bigger and quieter. The Scion xD uses trusty Toyota Corolla mechanicals and a very unique approach to interior and exterior design.  I find it a nice and often-overlooked alternative to the Fit and Versa.  

Minus superior gas mileage (car): Pretty much any midsize/semi-compact car you'd consider that would offer better winter performance via AWD or greater  ground clearance will probably top out at around 27 MPG hwy (using 2008 EPA standards).  In that category, the first cars I would turn to would be Subarus.  You mentioned the forrester being somewhat cramped.  Give it another shot, and see what you think.  Otherwise, the Legacy and Outback (same car; the outback has greater ground clearance) are excellent.  They're reliable, long-lived, well designed and engineered, and come standard with AWD.  With a manual transmission, a basic Legacy model will cost no more than $22K, and comes with all the basics like power windows/mirrors/locks, remote entry, CD player, etc.  Mileage is 20/27, which doesn't seem great, but consider that it used to be something like 23/30 under 2007 EPA estimates and no changes to the engine.  I suspect that with a manual, and with mostly rural light-footed driving, you'd be able to meed/exceed that hwy mileage figure. I'd also recommend the all-new Impreza, but shockingly, it get the same gas mileage as the larger Legacy.

If you can wait for the new Jetta diesel, the 2008 2.5 liter gets a bit better mileage (20/29) and is available was a partial zero emissions vehicle (PZEV).  Of course, it's an excellent car, though not available in AWD.  

The VW Passat, though larger and heavier than everything else I've suggested and that you've mentioned, gets surprisingly good mileage (21/29), and is both luxurious and swift.  Its available with a manual, and comes with traction control as standard, but the turbo engine requires premium.  It's not the same passat you're used to--completely redesigned.  

If your budget can exceed $26K, also consider the excellent AWD Audi A3.  It's basically the same as a VW Jetta/Passat (All three use the same basic chassis architecture), but appointed with Audi's superlative interior and available with AWD.  It gets similar mileage.  

Does this list cover any viable options?  Do you have any preferences regarding luxury/equipment, performance, or size?  

It occurred to me that I hadn't addressed any SUVs, which you included in your thread subject.  The fact is that the only good SUV-ish cars that get decent gas mileage AND are available with a manual transmission are the Honda Element and Subaru Forrester.  I like the Forrester, but you need to decide if the seats are comfy enough.  The Element is decidedly funky, no doubt.  But it's built on the solid, reliable Civic/CR-V chassis and is super-functional.  It's acceptably efficient, and with the manual, surprisingly swift.  Plus, you're probably already well aware of Honda's superlative reliability and build-quality.  

Did you have any luck on your search?

I am in sort of the same situation.  Although I am not as tall as you, I must have long legs, as every car I get in, my legs either rub against the center console, or in order for my arms to be comfortable on the steering wheel, my knees are under my ***  

I had a mini-cooper, and it was a job to drive, but again, when I pulled the seat up close enough to be comfortable, my legs were rest against those down columns.  Must be a common problem, as they actually said a pad to velco to the down columns.  

I've tried dozens of cars.  I don't want and don't need a awd or 4wd, that would be a waste for me.  Has to be automatic, I do a lot of city communting.

Comfy front seats for longs trips.  I've tried the Nissan Sentra, the new mazda 3, several cars.

The prius looks promising.  There is no center console and the gas mileage is good, but even a used Prius, is *** and here in stuck up Thomas Jefferson country, every one drives a new one.

I am testdriving a Toyota RAV4 this week-end - a 2 wheel drive version, which gets ok gas mileage.  And there is a rare Honda cr-v which is 2 wheel drive, but no where close to Charlottesville.  

My most comfy car was an old 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass that I bought for my brother-in-law when he was down on his luck.  Like sitting in a lazy-boy all day, but the gas mileage, while better than the pick-up i am driving now, was a lot to be desired.

Sigh, I may be out of luck, or I may have to find a 1973 Eldorado, or some such non-sense.

Help..  

It's me. The guy who wrote the original post almost 2.5 years ago.

I'm STILL looking for a car that:

1) Is comfortable for my back.
2) Can drive on dirt roads.
3) Comes with a manual transmission.

I have found that the Volvo V70 and the Jeep Grand Cherokee satisfy #1 and #2. But they only come with automatic transmissions.

I have test-driven all of the SUVs that I can find that some with a stick-shift option (Ford Escape, Mercury Mountaineer, Jeep Patriot, Jeep Compass, Jeep Liberty). None of them have seats that go back far enough -- as stated above it's like being stabbed in the lower back.

The VW Golf, despite it's small size, is really comfortable. We may buy one of these for highway driving, but it doesn't let me visit my father who lives at the end of a 3-mile dirt road.

At this point, I'm less concerned about gas mileage. I don't mind only getting 20-25 MPG as long as I'm not replacing my entire exhaust system every two years because I scraped it off on a rock.

It blows my mind that with hundreds of cars to choose from, I can't find anything that fits 3 simple criteria. At this point the cars in our driveway have over 300K miles combined, and I hate driving anywhere because I have to get out and stretch every hour because of the back pain. So I'm sure I'll be buying a new car soon -- I just still don't know which one.  

Hi there,

I am also looking for an SUV and have been extensively. I have made a crazy spreadsheet catologing about 70 different SUVs and ranking them on reliability, cost of ownership, fuel efficiency, etc...would be happy to share it with you if you think it would help.
I only have one criteria that I share with you, and its the comfortable on the back, because I had back surgery a while back.
Anyway, I think the Acura MDX meets 2 of your criteria:

Blurb from Acura website regarding Off-roading:

Acura took thorough measures to ensure that off-road enthusiasts would be satisfied with the MDX. The vehicle meets design criteria developed for the original MDX, which was based on research at different off-road areas across the country. This research was the foundation for specific minimum performance criteria for the new MDX, including travel through standing water nearly 19-inches deep, steep approach and departure angles (28-degrees front and 23-degrees rear), rocks, off road and paved grades up to 60-percent. Components located underneath the vehicle are tucked away to avoid damage in off-highway driving and the evaporative canister is protected by a high-strength steel guard.

The high-torque V-6 engine, SH-AWD® system with hill logic and computer-controlled traction capabilities help the MDX meet typical off-road challenges without the need for low-range gears. The MDX outperforms its predecessor without the need for a driver-selected 4WD "lock" mode.


I am considering one of these, but also looking at the RX330 and Ford Edge. I don't like manual transmissions and don't care about off-roading that much though. Would a vehicle that is automatic transmission but has the option to be driven simulated manually (the click shift kind where you just push one way or the other to shift gears) work for you? If so that will open your options up considerably.

Also, a word about volvo. The volvo of 2001-2010 is not the same company prior to those years. I have the unfortunate task of trying to sell a 2001 Volvo S60 that on average probably made two trips a year to the mechanic. I will never buy another Volvo so help me God I will say that they make great seats, though.