Automotive Forums

Congradulations!

The Outlander is an excellent, choice, I think.  I find the Graphite Grey Pearl an excellent color, though I too would have a hard time deciding between that an the blue.  Notice, however, how seemlessly the Grey blends with the monochromatic tail lights and how it minimizes the contrast between the painted body and that matt-black strip of platic that runs along the bottom of the body's perimeter.  

Anyway, whether your nearest dealer goes out of business or not, there's absolutely no reason why you need a mitsubishi dealer to perform basic maintenance.  It'll be years before you "need" one of those big "inspections" that dealers often charge several hundred dollars for.  In the mean time, any reasonable mechanic can perform oil changes and fluid top-offs, and as long as you have them stamp/sign your maintenance log, it's perfectly legitemate in the eyes of the factory Warranty.  

Actaully, I hope you go ahead and learn how satisfying it can be to perform basic maintenance on your car your self.  Changing the oil is a breeze, and is impossible to screw up.  They even give instructions in the owners manual.  You can choose your own oil and your own oil filter, which is more important than it seems.  And for the price of a regular oil change, you can do it yourself with store-bought Mobil 1 Synthetic.  Just a thought.  

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Hey DQ, good choice of vehicle.  10-year warranty is pretty sweet and shows a lot of confidence of the manufacturer in their product.  Even if your Mitsu has problems, they won't be your problems (to pay for at least).  Wait.....are you buying or leasing?  Oh well, its a good choice either way.

Don't worry about Mitsu going out of business.  Many car makers go through ups and downs and this is a down time for Mitsu.  Your local dealership is another story.  But speedracer makes an excellent point; it will be many years before you will need the services of a dealership service department.  So this is plenty of time for your current dealership to go under and another Mitsu dealer to pop-up and replace it in the future.

NEVER BUY A BIEGE INTERIOR.  Your instincts serve you well, biege will cling to all manner of stains.  Listen to your instincts.  

I would definitely go for a Toyota over a Ford any day.  The Rav4's are actually pretty nice looking now, I was surprised when I saw one recently.  If you're going to get a Mustang you might as well wait until you retire or have the money to get a Saleen with the stage 3 kit.  
Having trouble getting auto loan financing?  Get approved today at http://www.CapitalAutoLoan.com

Thanks guys once again,

   Here's a little update. I was supposed to have taken delivery of the car last Friday as I had mentioned. My mom, however, convinced me to back out of the 42-month lease deal, and the check was cancelled. She was right, and I got a far superior deal with another Mitsu dealership yesterday for 36 months. A lesser price, but INÇLUDING the 650-watt Rockford Stereo system and moon roof. I also got the car in black, my preferred color choice. The dealership showed me the invoice, as they basically sold the car for what they'd paid, or so they say. I'm expected to pick up the car tomorrow. There are, however, a fews things I find  a bit unsettling. Despite pulling the trigger, I had noticed for the first time that the side doors on the vehicle were not particularly substanial, nor was the car ever crash tested by the government. I'm assuming  the wide array of safety features would provide more than adequate protection in the instance of a side collision, but I'm still a wee bit concerned if perhaps this a testament to the build quality of the car.

I was convinced I had done an inordinate amount of research, but I'm still finding things I wish I had sooner. I'm somewhat skeptical of Mitsu's reliabiliy. Throughout the 90s, Mitsu was not regarded highly to say the least. Non-coincidentally, things would change for the better upon their divorce with Chrysler in terms of reliability according to some post I had read. On another note, the Mitsu took 128 feet to brake for 60, good for it's class, but not comparable to the 112 ft mark posted by the CX-7.

I wonder, if perhaps, I should have gone with the CX-7. The few luxuries I received with the Outlander are great, but  just that luxuries. I find the most rewarding thing is buying a highly sought after car in its lowest trim level for an uncharacteristically low price. I do realize the CX-7 is not particularly fuel efficient, but the money saved on the lease would more than offset gas costs.

Anyway, It's too late now, the Outlander is great car in it's own right, aside for the aforementioned concerns I have with it. Besides, I wonder if the Mitsu dealerships would conspire against me if I were to back out of yet another deal. I should be very much happy with the car though, it's a beauty. Feel free to make any remarks that would alleviate my concerns, but be honest.

Thanks,
 DQ  

Ok, you wanted honesty.  Mitsu is, as you said, not known for their long-term quality.  It does help having the 100k warranty, because if something does fail, Mitsu has to pay for it.  But if knowing you have a quality car is important to you, then your original Toyota RAV 4 and Honda runner-ups would have been the smarter choices.

Did you not notice the flimsy side doors when you test-drove the Outlander?  You did test-drive it, right?  Flimsy doors are something you need to look for in-person, not "research."  I don't understand how this is bothering you now, not only after buying and then cancelling your first Mitsu, but also after leasing a second one!!

Unless I am mistaken, I think the Outlander is a bit larger than the CX-7, which explains the 36 extra feet it needs to stop from 60 MPH.  You don't buy an SUV for its acceleration / shortstop performance (unless you're buying a glorified luxury SUV like BMW, Porshe, Volvo, Lexus, etc), you buy it because it allows you to carry stuff and still look cool (otherwise you'd get a Minivan, eh?).  Also, while riding in an Outlander, your higher-stance and larger mass relative to other cars on the road will go a long way toward protecting you from serious injury if involved in a car crash.

But yeah, if I just put down a wad of cash for a new car, I would be much more interested in build quality and safety features than I would about having a moonroof and premium sound system.  And if the Outlander really hasn't been crash-tested......this is very bad news.

Good luck with your new ride man.  

You're experiencing buyer's remorse before you've even taken delivery of the car!  

But really, I don't think you should worry.  Flimsy-feeling rear doors might not be desireable, but they don't necessarily equate to poor overall quality.  My Mazda has junky feeling doors all around, yet the car is exceptionally reliable, very solid, and still a hoot to drive after 7 years.  The Outlander's stopping distance isn't great.  It weighs some 400lb less than the CX-7, yet has poorer braking.  However, the CX-7 is engineered for high levels of performance, and it's price reflects that.  In fact, I think the CX-7 is a superior car in every dynamic category to the outlander.  But we must hold this "superiority" in perspective.  

The CX-7's fuel economy, its premium fuel requirement, and its overall maintenance costs are not insignificant. First, fuel economy:  The CX-7 is rated at 19-24 MPG, while the Outlander is 20-27.  It may seem like just a few MPG difference overall, but based on my experience of driving various turbocharged cars, I feel very confident in saying that, with an automatic transmission, it is much more difficult to achieve EPA mileage estimates in a turbo car than it is in a naturally aspirated car. Part of the reason for this is the fact that even under moderate acceleration, a turbo engine will deliver big thrust because of its quick-spooling turbo.  the result is effortless and swifty acceleration, but also big fuel consumption.  A naturally aspirated car will deliver fuel economy more directly proportional to the way you drive it.

For example, when i drive my mom's Passat with the intention of actually getting somewhere briskly, I need only apply half-throttle inputs to get the turbo to spool up fully and deliver healthy amounts of acceleration.  It feels nice, but I struggle to get more than 18 MPG on a 5 mile trip, which includes a stint on the highway.  To achieve the EPA mileage on that car, I need to pussyfoot the throttle so much that I end up crawling around at very low speed and accelerating far slower then even average traffic.  This ultra-slow driving style is what the EPA uses to estimate mileage.  I'm willing to bet that a CX-7 would struggle to acheive even the lowest EPA rating in average driving conditions, while the Outlander would achieve and exceed EPA estimates in mixed driving.  Add to that the premium fuel reequirement of the CX-7, and synthetic oil changes (at $60-70 per change if you don't do it yourself), and the running costs of the CX-7 may very well be far higher than you think.  

As for Mitsubishi's reliability:  It's true that Mitsubishi doesn't have the reputation that other Japanese carmakers do and had a bit of negative attention in the 90's. But I'm willing to bet that a large part if this is due to the high maintenance costs and reliability issues with Mistubishi's most notable cars of that period: the 3000GT and Eclipse, both of which were high performance, high-technology cars. The reliability of the Galant, Colt, and Lancer, however, demonstrate Mitsubishi's ability to build reliable everyday cars.  

The fact that the Outlander hasn't been crash-tested leaves some questions open.  But the fact is that it's hard to find a modern car that doesn't do well in a crash test.  The hefty airbag complement, solid structure, and active head restraints suggest to me that it's not foolish at all to drive an outlander and expect it to be safe.  

But ultimately, if you don't LIKE the outlander, then you shouldn't buy it.  If you like the CX-7 more, then that's the car you should drive.  But you have to be prepared to pay for it, and when you consider the fact that the Outlander is a very capable car in its own right, I justification for the CX-7 seems to fade--unless that big whack of turbo power and slick hanlding is really important to you.  

Well I must say this is a long time coming...

I've been busy with a brief trip to San Fran among other things, but I'd be amiss if I were to say I had a legitimate excuse in not providing an update for so long.

At the last minute I decided to cancel the Outlander order, and rushed to a Ford dealership to shake hands on a pricey V6 Mustang lease.  


No, only kidding : )~   I stuck with the Outlander and after sometime of second guessing myself (things like: I guess a car is just a mere conveyance, etc.) I'm ready to say I like the car considerably. The jury is still out though, it has just 260 miles on the odometer, but given that the previous generation Outlander was known for its reliability, the odds are this redesign will follow suit, especially since it is superior in every possible way. The interior contains a city of cheap plastic, that unlike the Mustang, does not make a statement. I guess you could say it is tastefully arranged, but I hope this is not a testament to the quality of the car as a whole.

   When my first realization of love dawned on me, shortly thereafter the car was rear-ended. Funny how things work. However, it was only a minor fender-bender, but the damage is over 800 dollars. The low rear plastic bumper needs to be replaced entirely to fix a few scratches, and that is the major expense. It is dented in as well. I feel guilty for taking the man's money (it was his daughter that was driving), b/c it wasn't entirely her fault. I had to stop somewhat short myself, b/c of somebody in front of me that wasn't involved with the accident. However, I do realize whatever scratches and dents are left untaken care of will only come back to bite me in the end. Maybe if I wind up buying the car in the end, I don't suppose this will affect its resale value all too much.

 That being said, my only concern while driving is that of not knowing for sure whether the car would pass the rollover test. I'm inclined to believe traction control would prevent the car from tipping up, but judging by the car's height and width, more than 3 stars on a rollover test would seem somewhat surprising. What the *** do I know though? I just take turns a tad slower thna I would if I were driving a smaller car, that's all, well..sometimes.

The fuel economy leaves something to be desired, not too bad, but it's sort of what I expected. Consumer Report's road tests were pretty accurate in this regard. The EPA is notorious for overestimating mpg, and you'd think it'd be the other way around.

The car is quick though, I haven't yet pushed it too the limits since I'm still awaiting for the odometer to surpass 300 miles, but I had it out on the highway last night and it did not disappoint to say the least. I wasn't left high and dry in passing situations, this I guess I could attribute to the 6-speed automatic. I'd reckon this car is only a smidge slower than the Maxima, I know I'm being irrationally optimistic, however.

I'll be sure to keep you posted regularly, and I do greatly appreciate all your help in steering me towards this vehicle.  

Glad you like the car, but sad that it was damaged so early in its life.  

I'm surprised that the interior seems to plasticky.  At the autoshow and on a recent VERY breif test drive, I found it to be...well not exactly classy or luxurious, but at the very least, made of reasonably soft/tightly grained plastics that lined up with each other nicely, and didn't creak when I pushed on them. Not HIGH praise, but then, I keep VW interiors in the back of my mind as benchmarks, and as far as I'm concerned, nobody's up to that standard yet.  

As for your worries about rolling over.  Don't be worried.  Period.  Look, if you try hard enough, you can flip anything.  I knew a kid in highschool who managed to flip his dad's Porsche 911 around an ordinary, flat corner.  I know another kid who flipped a camry on a telephone-poll support.  I've also barreled through corners, sliding all 4 tires around like mad, in a Ford Explorer (notorious for tire-failure-induced rollovers) with no hint of impending doom.  

The fact is that the Outlander is based off of a Mitsubishi car platform.  Actaully, if I'm not mistaken, it's based off of the same chassis as the new Lancer.  The taller body adds structural metal above the center of gravity, but not much.  Extra ride-height adds to the higher center of gravity, but again, not much.  To an engineer, it's essentially a tall car, and as such, has a low enough center of gravity to be flung into corners at wild speeds without even approaching tip-over point.  

Actually, even the body-on-frame SUVs with the highest Center of Gravity STILL won't tip over in a corner, nomatter how fast you drive.  The tires simply don't have enough adhesion to "trip" the car.  SUVs experience greater rollover events because they're easier to "trip," but only if something extraordinary happens, like sliding sideways into a tall curb at high speed, or sliding sideways off the road into a deep mud rut.  Your Outlander doesn't have a high enough CoD to be nearly as likely to roll over in such an event.  

Your fuel economy will likely improve over time as the engine breaks in--although only minimally.  One thing you can do to add tiny percentages of greater efficiency here and there is to start using Synthetic oil at your next oil change.  Synthetic oil changes are expensive if done by a shop.  But I do recall waxing on about how satisfying it is to change your own oil.  Pay out a bit of investment for some ramps ($40) and an oil filter wrench, and you're good to go.  You can choose your own oil filter (online research will help), and you can find incredibly cheap Mobil One full synthetic oil at Walmart for $20 for 5 quarts.  With these premium products, you'll pay about the same as you would for a regular oil change at a shop or the dealer.  To keep your warranty valid, I don't recommend extending your oil change intervals while using synthetic, even though you could (I go 8-9K miles between changes using Amsoil filters and Mobile1 oil).  But if your owners manual has a "regular use" oil change interval (usually 7500 miles or so) and a "heavy use" oil change interval (usually 5000 miles), you can easily stay warranty-appropriate and go the full 7500 with synthetic.  

I suspect the Outlander is a fairly quick car, especially compared to the 4 Cyl competitors.  But don't go inviting your dad to stop-light drag races in his Maxima.  He'll spank you.  It's a simple matter of similar weight, and the Maxima's 30/50 HP and torque advantage.  But then again, I reckon you could keep pretty close to his rear bumper at least through 60 MPH.  

As always, thank you speedracer,

          The Outlander is a wonderful car. Whatever vestige of longing I have for the CX-7 is due largely to the incredible deals that keep surfacing. I saw one in the newspaper the other day for an AWD Sport, that claimed to have had an msrp of 21 thousand something. Better than the deals listed on the Mazda site, although these deals are nothing to complain about either:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayRegionalIncentives.action

I'm sure the money saved on payments would offset fuel costs, but let me not dwell on this anymore. It's only an issue of money that could have been saved, rather than preference at this point.

I love my Outlander, and have supplied you with pictures:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=43510557512.29031557512.1185866160339&view=1&page=&sort_order=&albumsperpage=&navfolderid=2007

Yes, I know it's beige cloth that jmac vehemently advised against. But the beige comparments look classier if you ask me. It's high quality cloth as well, hard to visually discern between it and leather.
The majority of these pictures were taken a day or two after the car was bought, the rest were taken earlier today. The last 2 pictures show the damage incurred from the collision, which brings me to my first question.

The parents of the girl that had rear-ended me were kind enough to come my house, and give me 800 dollars in cash without any resistence to speak of. I felt terrible for taking their hard earned money, and I'm inclined to believe that perhaps at the end of the lease the dealership, or whomever is in charge of inspecting the vehicle, will not seek that sum of money for such insignificant damage, if, in fact, it is never fixed. I've considered possibly giving the money back, but what do you suggest I do? The odds are I'll have it fixed.

Another concern of mine has to do with the color of the car. Obviously black attracts the heat more so than a lighter shade would, and needless to say, the car is awfully hot in the day. I notice the engine is louder in the day, as the fan or so, earnestly fights to keep it at an ideal temperature. Does the color of the car place added stress on the engine, and would this in turn affect gas mileage?

The gas mileage has bemused me as well. The other night I was convinced the car was broken in when I averaged an unprecedented 26-27 mpg on city roads (granted I didn't stop at many lights). Yesterday and today, it was stop and go, but the gas mileage is no better than it was a few weeks ago under similar conditions, perhaps worse. However, I'm not certain the MPG gauge is always accurate.

All and all, I love my Outlander. It'd look even better with a nice pair of rims, but I can't justify purchasing a set.
I was a little hard on the interior, it's nicely executed for the most part.

That being said, I'm surprised you see so few Outlanders and CX-7s on the road. The only other current design Outlander I've ever seen was in San Francisco.

It's interesting how this thread was predicated on the Mustang and RAV-4 apples to oranges comparison. It's been a long road...

Thanks again,
 DQ  

Hey there,

Did you submit a police report after the accident?  Did you and the girl's father contact respective insurance agencies?  If repairing the damage is an "under the table" deal, I wouldn't feel bad about taking the money.  Yes, it WILL bite you in the butt later on, possibly to the tune of way more than you'd expect, since lease companies, as far as I know, are notorious for overcharging.  If it's possible to get insurance to cover the costs, however, perhaps you can just take the deductible out of the $800 he gave you, and give the rest back.  

The color of your car will not effect engine performance, longevity, or gas mileage.  Humans are effected by a 10-20 degree increase in temperature far more than an engine.  You'd notice your cooling fans blasting away just as much if your car was white, as the temperatures generated by internal combustion are far too high to be affected by a few degrees increase from black paint.  

The MPG meter (assuming it's a digital average readout in the instrument bin) should be reasonably accurate, as it measures actual fuel flow.  But it's perfectly normal to get wildly different gas mileage even if your driving style doesn't seem all that different from trip to trip.  On a shortish trip, a couple stoplights and/or a single burst of hard acceleration can ruin your gas mileage for that trip, especially with reasonably powerful engines like the outlander's.  

Naturally aspirated gas engines get the best gas mileage when you drive with a combination of full throttle acceleration at low RPM and cruise in the highest gear possible at reasonably slow speeds.  In highway cruising, automatic transmissions don't effect mileage all that much.  But in city driving, it's difficult optimize your fuel economy.  With an automatic, the further you press the accelerator, the higher RPM the transmission will shift at.  Flooring it to 30 or 40 MPH  in an automatic will send the tach swinging to redline before the transmission upshifts.  Above a certain RPM, the fuel management computer will inject more fuel than necessary (run rich) in order to cool the combustion chambers, thus preventing auto-ignition (knocking) of the fuel/air charge, and maintaining appropriate combustion chamber temperature for maximum power.  All automotive engines run rich at high load/high RPM conditions, and it's one of the reasons why, when the guy in front of you floors it for a period, you get a blast of nasty sulfur odor; unburnt fuel used to cool the combustion chambers is heated and partially catalyzed in the catalytic converter, releasing the fuel's sulfur.  

A manual transmission allows the driver to floor it, and then upshift at 3000 RPM or so.  This is highly efficient because a wide-open throttle reduces air restriction into the engine, reducing pumping losses.  It doesn't heat the combustion chambers enough to require rich running, and in torque-rich cars, it provides adequately quick acceleration.  The only way to accomplish this in an automatic is to feather the throttle at 3000 RPM or so, let the automatic upshift one gear, then plant it again.  You have to do this carefully, however, because if you let the transmission upshift too early, when you floor it again, it'll kick right back down to the lower gear.  

This exercise probably isn't worth the effort, however, especially since I suspect the outlander's engine probably has an electronic throttle, which means your gas pedal is connected to a computer, not a cable.  And any modern engine computer, especially one working in conjunction with a 6 speed automatic, will do its best to balance smoothness, acceleration, and economy.  Trying to outsmart it may just lead to added annoyance and poorer economy.  

The link you provided for photos took me to a page that required username and password info, so I couldn't see the pics.  But I agree with you about the tan interior.  I think lighter colors, especially tan with a black upper dash, looks airier and richer.  It dirties faster, but I'd gladly trade that for a more pleasant place to spend time.  

Thanks speedracer,

       I got the car fixed, and I uploaded the car pictures to my website (that is still in the works):

  http://www.capelladomain.com/outlander.html

-DQ  

Look great.  Some details about the Outlander I hadn't noticed:  

The tail lights seem to be an array of LEDs, which is an especially rich touch--such lighting assemblies are usually reserved for much more expensive cars.  

The tightly-packed twin exhaust pipes are a welcome departure from recent exhaust design schemes that often aim to reduce cost by tucking some ugly, bent single pipe tucked under the bumper.

Turn signal lights on the side mirrors are refreshingly modern.  Many cars are offering them now, and it's nice to see that Mistu is following valid styling and safety trends rather then skimping out in favor of traditional-but-cheap methods.  

Also, I was REALLY trying to avoid writing my thesis the other day, and researched the engine in the Outlander. I'd originally though it was a simply destroked/debored version of the 3.5 and 3.8 liter V6s in the rest of the Mitsu lineup.  I was wrong; it's a unique engine with some spiffy techonology and somewhat unusual design perameters.  If you're interested in learning more, let me know, I'll write a small piece on it the next time I'm avoiding my stupid thesis.  

BTW, how'd the accident repairs go?  Did you return the money?

Oh, and did you check out the meteor showers that were supposed to happen this weekend?