Automotive Forums

K,

I'm still deciding which car I want to purchase. Any help will be very much appreciated. Pros / Cons for each would be great. I'm really leaning toward the Accord, but I thought I would put this out there just in case there were things that I might be missing.

Thanks  

The midsize sedan market is extremely difficult to categorize, even in simple pros/cons charts because they can be had with seemingly infinite variations of luxury and performance options, from $20K to well over $30K.  SO to make your decision process easier, I'll try to compile 2 pros/cons lists: one of the 4 cylinder models and assuming "medium" or "sensible" options (no GPS navigation or other luxury items), and one with V6 models with equally sensible options.  For all three, the prices should be in the low to mid $20Ks for the 4Cyl, and the mid to high $20Ks for the V6.  

Fortunately, all three of these cars happen to be among the best handling/sportiest cars in the category.  The Fusion rides on a Mazda6 chassis, and is balanced, taught, and fun.  The Legacy is similarly taught, and the standard AWD puts a bit more weight in the rear for greater balance -and excellend handling.  The Accord is probably the softest, least "sporting" option, yet has accurate steering, and a communicative chassis that makes it equally fun and satisfying to drive fast.  So, for the list:

4 Cylinder models:

 Fusion
  Pros:
-Inexpensive compared to the others, but only when optioned up to surpass the standard equipment of the others.  In otherwords, a loaded Fusion is cheaper than a loaded Accord or Legacy, but it also has fewer options.  -Decent engine designed by Mazda and used in pretty much every 4cyl mazda, except for the miata.  It's reliable, and preferrs higher revs, which is good for sporty driving, but bad for everything else.  
-Automatic is a 5 speed, which might minimize the loss of performance if you get an automatic.  
-Crisp styling.  It's subjective, but I doubt anyone can argue with the fresh, clean, modern styling of the Fusion.  

  Cons:
-Interior looks OK in pictures, but is cheap-feeling in person, and generally dark, boring, and seems as though it were designed by amateurs.  
-Ford still doesn't have the reputation for reliability that Honda and Subaru do.
-Surely won't retain its resale value like the Honda or Subaru will.  

 Legacy:
  Pros: Standard AWD--and a sophisticated one at that.  It drives all 4 wheels all the time (instead of waiting for the front wheels to slip before delivering power to the rear), and quickly proportions varying levels of power to each wheel depending on traction.  
-Gutsy 170 HP engine.  IT's a big bigger than the others, and delivers a better torque spread than the Fusion.  
-Classy styling, both inside and out.  Again, it's subjective, but I find the Subaru to be a timeless and and attractive design, especially on the inside where it has a distinctly BMW-like cockpit feel, along with quality materials.  
-Reputation for reliability and longevity.  Many consider subarus "bulletproof."
-Surprisingly inexpensive in base "Special edition" trim, which comes with all the usual electric options, and includes proper alloy wheels.  

  cons:
-If you check all the options, it can get expensive.
-IF you opt for an automatic, you only get a 4 speed, which makes the otherwise stout 2.5L engine seem a bit weak.
-It's heavier than the others, which makes the automatic even worse.
-AWD componentry saps a bit of rear-seat space.  It's not crampt, but not a roomy as the others.  Same with the trunk.  

 Accord:
  Pros:
-Solid, reliable, and designed to make driving as trouble-free as possible.  There's a reason why these sell better than almost anything else.  
-Rich-feeling interior that's a cut above the others.  With a few options, the dash and instruments would look perfectly at home on a high-end acura.  
-Laid-back ride compared to the others, which is not to be mistaken for floatiness or poor body control
-Easily the best largish displacement non-turbo 4 Cylinder engine available in the country at any price, in any car.   I'm repeatedly amazed by it's low-end grunt, willingness to rev hard, and utter smoothness at all RPMs.  Honestly, if you didn't know what you were driving, you'd think it was a smallish V6--and a good one at that.
-Available 5 speed automatic is smart and efficient.

  cons:
-Personally, I find the styling to be really really boring.  One might not notice its lack of styling on the road, but at a recent autoshow, I was surprized at how frumpy and old it looked compared to the fresh designs from other makers, and even compared to the not-so-new designs from Mazda and Subaru.  
-Others have praised its manual transmission, but I find it to be clunky and noisy when shifting, although it's certainly easy to use.  


So there you have it.  Personally, I'd take a manual Legacy because i like the looks, the AWD, and the torquey Flat 4 engine.  But if I had to choose an automatic, I'd take the Honda.  Really, the engine is amazing, and it's not as boring to drive as it looks.  I'm least impressed with the Ford.  It may be just a bit cheaper, but it feels like it too.  I find the gauges, the dash, and the interior materials to be inferior to pretty much all of the foreign competition, and since I'd have to sit in the car every day, I think that would bother me enough to offset the stylish exterior.  

So V6 (or other high-power engine options)

Fusion:
Pros:
V6s are available with AWD as an option, though the base model starts at about $26K.  
Cons: The Ford "Duratec" V6 is among the worst V6s available on the market.  It's weaker than its competition, with 221HP, but feels even weaker than that because it's gutless at low revs, and sounds thrashy at high revs.

Legacy:
Pros: OK, first, the LEgacy is available with either a Turbocharged version of the standard 2.5L 4Cyl making 250HP, or a 3L 6cyl making the same HP.  The 2.5T is fast, and while there's a bit of turbo lag at low revs, it hits hard at about 2500RPM, and shovs the car foreward with greater authority than either the Ford or the HOnda V6s, doing 0-60 in less than 6 seconds with a manual.  The 6cyl is more relaxed.  It's only a 3 liter, so it's not much more torquey than the Ford, but it's not as gutless or thrashy.

Cons: The 2.5T gets crap gas mileage.  It also requires premium fuel, and very likely would be more healthy over the long term with expensive synthetic oil changes.  This engine is also only available on expensive models that start around $30K.  Similarly, The 3L 6cyl is only available on the most expensive Legacy models, and will probably cost you well over $30K.  THe cost isn't just for the engine; the loaded models are every bit as richly apointed as more expensive luxury cars, though they're not available with a manual  

Accord:
Pros: The V6 is a great engine.  It makes 240HP, and revs freely with the usual satisfying Honda soundtrack.  It's also available in mid-priced trim at a bit over $25K, though the loaded models come in at over $30K.  With the 6 speed manual, the car is darn fast, and able to do the 0-60 in about 6 seconds flat.  Also note that the Accord is available with a V6 hybrid drivetrain, which simply adds an electric motor for more power.  This car is luxurious and fast, but expensive.  
Cons: As mentioned, loaded V6 models can be expensive. Although the 3L is a great engine, it's not as torquey as the Subaru 2.5T.  

So of the V6 (or 2.5T) models, I'd pick the Subaru hands down.  As a manual, it's very quick, and the automatic is a 5 speed, which makes it competative with the others, unlike the regular 2.5.  Although this car is much more expensive than, say a base V6 Fusion, the difference in power, performance, and refinement is worth it.  To me, A loaded V6 fusion is about as worthwhile as a loaded 4 Cyl Accord, which probably costs about the same.  So if you're looking at the higher end, there's no doubt that the legacy is the most exciting, and subjectively, I think the most appealing.  

I hope this ridiculously long post was helpful.  Let me know if you have more specific criteria, because all of these cars can be approached with completely different engine/option combinations.  

I do have more specifics - thanks for all of the useful information. I have completely ruled out the Ford, as I am planning on purchasing something brand new.

Actually, I'm looking very heavily into the leasing options for both the Accord and the Legacy. Honda subsidizes their leasing program, so, for the same price, I would be able to get a fully loaded (less the nav system) Accord EXL V6 or a "regular" Subaru Legacy. Both would have electronic everything, moon roof, leather. I just wouldn't be able to get the larger engine on the Subaru - which was (obviously) something that I was interested in.

Also, I'm 6'4 and I fit much better in the Accord than in the Subaru - although it was not the most noticeable issue. However, if I have to commute 2 hours round trip to and from work every day I think this should play a part in my decision making. The Accord was simply more comfortable for me.

I love the styling on either car. I love the look of the Accord (don't feel it is frumpy) as well as the Legacy (what's not to love)

I'm thinking, at this point, that I can get more car for my money by purchasing the Accord.

Am I correct in assuming this? (I think the difference in price was about 40 dollars a month for the different lease options)

Thanks again for your help.  

I should mention also that I will be purchasing (albeit regrettably) an automatic. My wife doesn't drive a manual and will probably drive the car on occasion. Not sure if this makes a difference, but thought I would let you know anyway.  

Actaully, the automatic factor makes ALL the difference--at least if I were in your shoes.  To me, the  difference in performance between the 4 cyl 4-speed automatic Legacy and the V6 5 speed automatic Accord is so vast, all the class/styling/handling advantages that I percieve in the Legacy are made irrelevant when the drivetrain won't deliver.  

So...in short, get the Accord V6 (I think you mean EX, not EXL).  If it's more comfortable for you, you dig the styling, and you want a bit of shove in the engine room, and monthly payments end up equally a 4cyl Legacy, I can't think of a single good reason to get the Legacy.

I think it's a shame that Subaru lets down the very demographic that desire their cars for their engineering prowess.  Subaru packs in all sorts of good stuff, and then what, a 4speed automatic when Hyundai, Kia, and--wtop the presses--even GM is offering 5 and 6 speeds?  Add to that the fact that a simple engine upgrade to the admittedly excellent 2.5Turbo requires $8000 worth of options, and i think someone REALLY needs to revise their packaging strategy.  

Rant over:

I'm no accountant, but I'm sure you're aware of the hefty disadvantages of leasing.  It's great that Honda subsidizes their leases and offers low monthly payments, but also be aware that they hold their value very well, so keeping the car beyond the lease term isn't feasable due to the high buy-out price.  

If that's not an issue, then getting a V6, relatively loaded Accord for the montly price of a "lesser" legacy seems like a no-brainer.  Just be aware of Honda's generally unique oil viscosity requirements and don't let Jiffy Lube put the wrong stuff in.  

Good luck.  

Cool. I'll get the Accord. I had pretty much made my mind up, but you have only helped to solidify my standing.

But, I've got to disagree with you that leasing is a "financial disadvantage".

The "residual" on a honda (the price they say they will sell it to you at the end of the lease - fixed - agreed upon at signing) is well below the retail value of the car (becuase its a honda). To give you an exact idea a Honda Accord EXL (for leather), minus nav, is worth about 30 g's brand new. Honda says the residual will be around 16 g's after the 36 year term. Meaning, I could buy the car for 16 thousand if I chose to do so - wouldn't have to pay points on any overage mileage etc. Just buy it for 16 grand strait up, no questions asked.

A 3 year old EXL V6 actually sells for roughly 22 thousand. So, I'd be in a great spot.

OR

I could just turn in the keys and lease the newest model accord / pilot / etc.

For me, not having the slightest handle on mechanics I am not the type to want to keep a car longer than about 5 years anyway.

Why hang on to a depreciating asset. Having no payments after 4 or 5 years is a wise financial decision, but maintenance will be an issue and most people who purchase their car end up "upside down" in the loan at one point or another. Meaning, they owe more than their car is worth at that point in time.

This is my current case with my Volkswaggen Jetta that I will be so happy to let go of for the accord.

With leasing I'll always be under warranty and never have to worry about mainenance - besides oil changes etc.

For me, it just makes more sense. If I were a bit more adept and understood mechanical issues better I would purchase a car and put 300 thousand miles on it - this is the other financially sound thing to do - if you can maintain your own vehicle.

Monthly payments don't scare me. HUGE unexpected maintenance bills do.

Talk about a rant - just wanted to voice the "other" side of the coin.  

Don't know about your experience but recently turned around an overmile Acura MDX with door dings, damaged leather etc. for a new model and the dealer did not even comment on the car. Just turned it back around to Honda finance. When you are leasing or buying another of the same brand, they will often times overlook any flaws they would otherwise charge you for. That is why I often times tell people to lease a car that is part of a model range/brand they think they could stay with. Like Honda or BMW. Both of which are very good to returning Lessee's. Would love to hear other experiences.  

Balboa - this is what I've been thinking - glad to hear it from someone that's been there / done that.  

Hey all - I just got through checking the Acura website (thought, what the heck - let's take a look) and the new TL has a lease option for $369 a month (which is slightly more, but very comparable to the Accord EXL V6).

Any reasons why I shouldn't get the Acura?

Thanks  

Despite the fact that the Accord and TL share basic chassis architecture, the TL is a big step up in every way.  If the lease price of the TL is affordable and not much more than a loaded Accord, I can't think of a single reason not to get the TL.  I'm thoroughly impressed with my Uncle's every time I drive it.  Despite its percieved heft, it's light on its agile and fun to drive.  Though the engine is only slightly larger than the Accord's V6 (and otherwise the exact same engine), the difference in thrust is noticeable, and the TL feels darn quick.  The interior is also a big step up in textures, ambiance, quality, and luxury.  Standard Xenon lights make it feel like a true entry level luxury car, which, ya know, it is.  

Anyway, I suspect that if you drive one, you'll notice that it's definately a big step up from the Accord, which says a lot considering how nice a Loaded Accord is.

One thing though, the TL probably requires Premium fuel.  I can't find anything that states this, but I know that the 3.2 and 3.5L engines in the TL have an 11/1 compression ratio.  I've not seen any engine over 10/1 that didn't require premium.  At least the TL gets exactly the same gas mileage as the Accord despite the extra power.  

Thanks for the info Speed racer.

I'll let you know what turns out. Got some stuff that I need to take care of financially before I make the leap, but it should be within the next couple of months that I step into something. I'll make sure to report back and let you know what I've gone with. Either way, I'm sure I won't be dissapointed.