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Mazda RX 8's Engine Failure Problem

 
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Old timer Old timer
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 02/25/07
02:11 PM

The following is my conclusion from reading the discussions about RX 8's rotary engine failure problems from other RX 8 forums on the Internet and from currently owning a 2005 RX 8. You can form your own conclusions
 
The only thing wrong with Mazda RX 8's sold in the USA is that Mazda USA requires the use of a very thin light weight 5W-20 oil that breaks down and cannot protect the rotary engine and catalytic converter from early failure, because the normally very hot running engine runs very, very hot especially in slow traffic and long drives in warm weather. Every city in the USA has slow traffic jams and warm weather so what good is the RX 8 using this oil in the USA.

Every where else in the World (except in the USA) Mazda requires in the RX 8 Owners Manual the use of 5W-30 oil to adequately protect the very same hot running rotary engine that is in RX 8's in the USA. The heavier oil protects the engine and oil seals from failure and prevents oil blow by from ruining the catalytic converter, for over 200,000+ miles, as documented in many forums on the web.

For example, printed on Castrol bottles of 5W-20 weight synthetic oil, says "use only in cars used for short trips" and another 5W-20 Castrol bottle of non synthetic oil says "use only if required by the car manufacture". Other wise, Castrol ,who sets the standard for excellent oil, does not recommend the use of 5W-20 oil unless directed to by the car manufacture or for short trips.

In addition, Castrol can be objective with out any conflicts of interest about which oil weight not to use to protect an engine, because it does not manufacture cars nor have any vested interests or concerns about meeting EPA miles per gallon requirements to avoid fines.

In the USA the RX 8 engines using the very light 5W-20 weight oil last maybe for around 30,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt a number of times before and after expiration of the warranty. This is probably why Mazda now only warrants the car for 3 years or 36,000 miles instead of the prior warranty of 5 years or 50,000 miles. This is also clearly documented in many RX 8 owner web sites.

However, in the USA Mazda requires the use of inadequate light weight 5W-20 oil in order for Mazda to meet EPA miles per gallon (MPG) gas consumption requirements. This light weight oil shortens the life of this normally very hot running rotary motor to around 30,000 miles, at the expense of the consumer who needs to keep spending lots of money and time to keep it running.

The owners must keep them running because no dealership wants to take the car in on trade or offer a fair amount on trade due to the now widely known problems Mazda has caused to happen to the RX 8

New buyers should consider not buying Mazda RX 8 cars until Mazda permits USA owners to also use non synthetic 5W-30 oil in their rotary engine, without loosing their warranty, as Mazda recommends throughout the rest of the World. Mazda could still put in the USA, RX 8 owners manual, recommendations to use 5W-20 oil to satisfy EPA , but not cancel the warranty of those who wisely choose to use non synthetic 5W-30 oil as recommended by Mazda, thorough out the rest of the World.

A class action law suit will straighten out Mazda and increase the life of our cars and make the car worth a proper amount when traded. RX 8 owners in the USA did not buy their RX 8 with full disclosure by the Mazda dealership that the car motor and catalytic would wear out much, much quicker than other cars, due to Mazda oil requirements in the USA nor how Mazda treats the USA RX 8 customer.

My Mazda dealership before purchase told me the RX 8 motor would last over 200,000+ miles because it was the nature of rotary engines. With the first oil change though they also told me they would not put 5W-30 weight oil in my RX 8 because according to them it would damage the engine (which is a lie) and would void the warranty, according to Mazda USA. Well it is common knowledge now with the USA Mazda required use of 5W-20 oil that the engine will not last 200,000 miles as advertised and more like it the motor will only last around 30,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt again and again etc.

Every RX 8 owner in the USA had better individually or join together to fight the Mazda lies about the weight of oil to use in their RX 8 or their motor's will have a very short life with no one to blame in the long run except for your own lack of sticking up for yourself and what you know is right.  

taking further action taking further action
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/12/07
04:54 PM

I know exactly what you are talking about.  I have went through this since February 2004.  Just recently I have now decided after 20 times of my vehicle being in the service dept. and just acquiring a new engine to take further action involving a suit against Mazda.  This is absolutely ridiculous and something must be done.  I strongly believe where there is a will, there is a way.  In the meantime of my preperation, if you or anyone you know wants to join me, please do so.  I believe this will be a struggle, but will prevail in the end.  This has gone on long enough.  If your'e interested in joining me, let me know. Anyhow, good luck to you, and hopefully you can get another few hundred miles without visiting the dealership again.  

MW_in_Texas MW_in_Texas
New User | Posts: 6 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/12/07
09:21 AM

I agree.
Mine died while driving on the road after it had come out of the shop. It has only 28k miles. I am not sure if it bad gasoline or what. It seems to idle rough when in D - at a light with the air on.

I agree on legally approaching Mazda. I can't believe the amount of complaint that I am reading online.

Maybe we can get a whole group together and get something going on Mazda.
studentlaw2006@hotmail.com Mad ...

Best,
Marcia  

TRWEBB TRWEBB
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/21/07
04:46 PM

I JUST SUFFERED THE SAME PROBLEM WITH NEAR ENGINE FAILURE. I HAVE A 2004 RX8 WITH 32000 MILES ON IT. WE HAVE BEEN HAVING PROBLEMS WITH POOR ACCELERATION AND ROUGH IDELING FOR 6-8 MONTHS OR MORE. WE TOO HAVE BEEN USING THE RECOMMENDED 5-20 OIL AS REQUIRED BY MAZDA. WE WERE TOLD BY A SERVICING DEALER THAT THE ENGINE WAS FINE...JUST THE USUAL WEARING OF THE ENGINE.  WE ALSO NOTICED AN ODOR FROM THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF THE PASSENGER DOOR BUT NOT THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT. THIS SMELL IS OF HOT CANDLE WAX OR PLASTIC MELTING.
WE HAVE MOVED TO ANOTHER STATE AND HAD THE CAR AGAIN LOOKED AT BY A LOCAL DEALERSHIP WHO RAN AN EXHAUSTIVE CHECK ON THE ENGINE TODAY. DX: DYING ENGINE DUE TO MELTING AND WEARING OF THE ROTAR SEALS. WE WERE TOLD THIS WAS AN UNCOMMON PROBLEM SEEN ONLY IN A COUPLE CARS. A NEW ENGINE IS BEING ORDERED AS INSTALLED....SO FAR I'M TOLD AT MAZDA EXPENSE.  SURE AM GLAD I DIDNT CHOOSE TO PURCHASE THIS CAR.  THE LEASE WILL BE UP EARLY NEXT YEAR AND YOU CAN BE SURE I WILL BE RETURNING THE CAR TO A DEALERSHIP.
WITH ALL THE COMPETITION IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY, IT IS AMAZING THAT MAZDA WOULD PUT IT REPUTAION ON THE LINE TO SELL A FEW CARS IN THE US MARKET. ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT THIS WILL CAUSE PREMATUE ENGINE FAILURE IN THIER
HIGH PERFORMANCE SPORTS CAR. ANYONE PLANNING TO PURCHASE ANOTHER MAZA? Confused  

Murf Murf
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/22/07
02:26 AM

If you are taking action in the form of a "Class Action Suit" against Mazda regarding the Mazda RX-8 engine problems in particular Mazda's insistant use of 5W-20 Motor Oil in the Rotary engine. All research I have come across point to the same conclusion, that the use of the overly thin 5W-20 motor Oil that Mazda uses on all rotary engine oil changes can and has paved the way to premature engine rebuilds. My car is a 2006 RX-8 Shinka 6-SP with 2550K miles, yes the milage is correct, it equates to about 50 miles a week. I have had (4) Oil changes in the year in have owned the car, Every (3) Months. The last one I had done the dealership didn't even change the oil filter, I marked it with a marker and sure enough when I picked the car up from the dealership the old filter was still being used, I was a little hot to say the least. Anyway I will continue to use 5W-20 engine oil  untill it is decided that a thicker or synthetic blend can be used with out voiding the warranty. I paid cash when I bought it new off the showroom floor, but I certainly would not want my warranty voided. If you are starting a Class Action Law Suit or now off people starting one I would like to be included. Ever wonder why the Warranty is 3 years or 36K miles originally? Now they are 5 years or 50K or 60K. I hope we can make a difference in this endevor.

Mdmliberty@comcast.net
Mark
2006 Mazda RX-8 owner  

nomoremazda nomoremazda
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/28/07
08:08 AM

My 2004 RX8 with 36,000 miles is at the dealer now getting a new engine. In and out of the shop several times in the last year. No plausible explanation for the problem other than "Mazda, North America said to put a new engine in".  They admit the new engine will have nothing different than the one that failed.  Apparently 3 or 4 engines have been replaced at that dealership alone.  I had 2 Mazda's in the past that were great cars.  Too bad RX8 could seriously damage their brand image (AND SHOULD!)  

abkerns abkerns
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 07/07
Posted: 07/13/07
07:00 AM

Well I guess it is good to know I am not alone. I have a 2005 RX-8 with 66,000 miles on it. (Yes, I had to drive it a lot.) It had been driving a bit funny ever since the first of the year, and in March I was in a center lane trying to turn left, and the car just cut off on me. I could not immediately restart it. Ever since then, it has happened to me EIGHT times where I will be at a stoplight or pulling into a parking spot, and the engine will just turn off all by itself. It is incredibly frustrating and embarrassing! I can usually tell when it's about to happen because the car will idle really rough and will have trouble accelerating.

Has anyone else had this problem? I have, of course, taken it to the dealership after each occurence. The first two times I went, one dealer decided to give me a full tune-up and send me on my way and when it happened again, they charged me TWO diagnostic fees and said there was no problem with the vehicle. Needless to say, I went to a different Mazda dealer. Then they would continue to find small things to fix (new catalytic converter of course; fix a wire on a spark plug; even a new fuel pump based on someone's "gut"). They would give me back the car hoping it was fixed, but it continued to shut off on me at stoplights and need a couple of minutes before it could restart.

I had decided to try to sell it and was ready to do so (guilty conscience and all), but yesterday Mazda finally said that they would pay to have a new engine put in it. So that is the last chance. If that does not fix it, nothing will. I think Mazda should buy the car back from me for what it would be worth if it were not broken, and let them deal with the problem. I've had my vehicle in the shop at least 6 weeks out of the past four months! They dont' even pay for a rental car!

I've never put anything but 5W-20 oil and premium gasoline in the car. If the lawsuit is happening, count me in!  

jmagana jmagana
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 07/07
Posted: 07/19/07
08:28 PM

*** is exactly what I'm experiencing and I only have 22,000 miles on my car.  In fact I just got my 2005 RX-8 back from the dealership after they tried, for three days, to duplicate the symptoms.  The service people sucked.  All they cared about was me picking up my car ASAP and bringing back the rental.  They had no suggestions because I'd exhausted all the crap they'd been telling me for months!  I've been having issues for almost a year but just recently it's been getting worse.  My car is less than two years old and it is less dependable than the Ford escort I owned for 6 years.  I'm pissed off and fed up.  I should have shelved the car once I heard about the recall back in December.  At this point, I just take joy from the fact that others share the same pains.  I want to join everyone's efforts in getting Mazda to pay up!  

Flexi06 Flexi06
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 07/07
Posted: 07/29/07
08:37 PM

I just bought a 2004 RX-8 and it has 27,000 miles,it's been about one month I've owned it.  It sometimes idles low and the car starts to raddle and it sometimes has a hard time acc. .  This doesn't always happen maybe 1-2 a week.  The dealership claims it's fine but I don't think this is how the car is suppose to run.  I think Iam in the same boat as everyone else and would like more info on what your going to try to do about this.  E-mail me at christopher.flechsig@us.army.mil  

bagmantx bagmantx
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/02/07
03:20 PM

I have a 2004 RX-8, with 49,000 miles on it. At 33,000 miles I had to get the engine replaced. I was experiencing significant loss of power, a pinging sound from the engine, almost stalling, and a rough rocking-back-and-forth issue when you let off the brake from a stop.

Well everything was fine until about two months ago. I brought the car in last week, and guess what? They are replacing the engine again at 49,000 miles.

I too would join any class action lawsuit against Mazda on these oil issues.  

Mikeyg3317 Mikeyg3317
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 07/07
Posted: 08/07/07
06:33 AM

Today will be my second comment regarding my 2004 Mazda RX8. Very Very Dissapointing. Yesterday while driving up HWY 290, the car just died. I was in rush hour traffic, and the car wouldn't turn over. I am fed up with this car. A gentleman approached me at the car wash the other day, and he was saying how he like my car. My words to him were to invest in a Nissan 350z. The Mazda RX8 is a piece of junk. The problem that I have with most of the Mazda dealers in Houston is, that the service people are all about commisions. You will spend, and spend before locating the root of the problem. I had one service rep at a mazda dealership off of the Soutwest freeway tell me that my brake fluid was dirty. I said " what do you mean. Then he wanted to hold my car for a recall that would go in to effect six weeks later. I am fed up with this car. There is one Mazda dealership that is somewhat good, but I dont really trust them either. I have though about bad decisions that I have made in my life, like getting married,and not completing college, but purchasing that RX8 is the worst decision made yet.  

MazdaTech MazdaTech
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/08/07
09:11 PM

I am dissapointed by the posts I am reading regarding the RX-8. Let me start off by saying that I am a Mazda service technician. I have personally replaced (under warranty) 2 Renesis (RX-8) engines in the past
two years. I have a good friend, also a Mazda tech who works in Vegas, that has replaced many engines. There are two reasons why Renesis engines
fail. Furthermore each of these two reasons have different underlying cause. Neither has anything whatsoever to do with 5-20 oil. There is a tremendous amount of misinformation being posted (on this forum) as well as other sites on the web, by individuals who have limited or no experience with automobile engines, much less a rotary engine, & especially not a Renesis engine.  

idesides idesides
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/11/07
07:43 PM

OK MazdaTech.  I'll concede that we're not nearly as smart as you when it comes to crappy rotary engines, so tell me why I had to replace my engine at 21,000 miles because it "lost compression" as my dealership told me, and why, TODAY, the same thing happened to me in traffic, with my pregnant wife in the car.  If it had happened in the middle of the left hand turn in traffic I was about to make, instead of at the light, I wouldn't be typing this.  I'd be following my two year old son from room to room trying in vain to figure out how to console a child too young to be consoled.  Your smugness astounds me.  This isn't merely an inconvenience for the sports car enthusiast.  It's a major safety issue.  If you want to tell us we're all wrong, fine.  But tell us why we're wrong, and tell us what the problem is, because so far your employer is as silent as a church mouse.  

MazdaTech MazdaTech
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/19/07
08:31 PM

Ok, I can see you're unhappy. However,  I am not the cause of your delimma and, that being said, might I suggest that we leave the attitudes aside and focus on the issue at hand. The two common reasons that rotary engines fail are: #1. loss of compression due to rotor apex seals becoming seized
in the rotor. When this happens, combustion actually leaks from one chamber into the next causing pre-ignition or detonation (pinging) spark-knock, all of which are the same thing.  In a rotary engine this also usually causes a severe lack of power. #2. loss of compression due to rotor housing damage due to overheating or lack of lubrication. The underlying cause of these issues differ. The apex seals seize or become stuck because of carbon buildup. Which could be caused by infrequent oil
changes and or poor fuel quality. The rotor housing damage occurs when the combustion chambers are exposed to extremely high temperatures, and the special alloy coating flakes off and subsequently causes causes basically
the same symptoms. Mazda knows all about these problems and has spent millions trying to engineer these rotor housings to withstand high combustion temps. and alleviate these issues. Believe it or not Mazda actually cares very much about your safety #1 as well as your continued
satisfaction as a mazda vehicle owner. A recall was issued in 2006 titled
recall 4206f. This recall envolves a fairly extensive inspection of every
Rx8 produced from the first to roll off production in the fall of 2003 until some time in 2005 when the changes were phased into production.
Briefly the recall involves replacing the leading spark plugs with an up
dated plug. Inspecting the catalyst efficiency with data stored inside the PCM (powertrain control module) known to us as mode 6 data, and re-programming the PCM to a new calibration which allows more oil to be injected into the rotor housings. This is just the standard part of the recall. It gets much more extensive depending on whether there are any previous customer complaints of severe lack of power or stalling issues.
This recall has once again cost mazda millions of dollars to prevent an issue which actually happens on a very small percentage of Rx's. I service
many, many Rx8 vehicles that belong to owners who are happy to own them.
I would like to point out that whatever dealership you are dealing with concerning these issues is probably not the one I work for. Also I'd like to add that the dealership personnel you speak to directly most likely is a service writer or maybe you've spoken to the service manager, but nonetheless these people deal with people, not cars. It is certainly possible that your stalling concern is not caused by engine failure but
some other problem. Without personally working on your vehicle, I'll probably never know for sure. I suggest you take your vehicle to a different dealership, have a sit down with the service manager and explain to him/her all of your issues past and present. You may also contact the
regional customer service rep. using the 800 number in your owners manual.
Good luck to you and your family.

Sincerely, MazdaTech  

idesides idesides
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/20/07
08:41 PM

If Mazda cared about safety, it wouldn't have people on this forum upset like me because they've had multiple engines which still stall out in hot weather.  These are problems that Mazda knows about.  If the recall you discuss had been effective, people wouldn't be on their 2d and 3d engines.  I appreciate the fact that you feel somewhat put upon personally.  Were I in your shoes, I'd defend myself and the company I work for, too.  However, I don't believe that Mazda cares about my safety any more than Ford execs cared about the safety of Pinto buyers, or any more than Lee Iacocca did when he successfully lobbied Nixon and NHTSA against making shoulder harnesses mandatory in back seats because of their cost.  In each case, and probably here too, insiders and engineers knew they had a safety problem on their hands.  They made decisions based purely on money.  The recall you discuss was clearly a bandaid if this is a problem which continues to happen.  How many more millions of dollars would Mazda have to spend to do the major surgery required?  What do you think that would do to zoom zoom's reputation?  The best thing that Mazda has going for it right now is the fact that there just aren't that many RX's out there. Not a lot of RX8's have been built comparatively speaking, so far fewer consumers have been exposed to the danger of merging into speeding traffic in Las Vegas, or Albuquerque in 95 degree heat.  Families of 5 don't hop into the RX8 to see the relatives in Iowa.  If you took the percentage of Mazda's serious RX8 problems and applied that percentage to the Accord, the Camry, or the best selling mini-van, don't you think you'd start to see death and carnage on the road, and in fairly pronounced numbers?  Would any manufacturer run that risk with its flagship family vehicle?  The first thought that ran through my head when my Mazda stalled out in the middle of traffic is, "thank God it didn't happen 4 seconds later."  I have a pregnant wife and a 2 year old son.  Do you think that after getting a new engine which apparently still has the same problem and stalling out in the middle of traffic I'm going to put either of them in there?  I've reported my problems to NHTSA, and I encourage anyone else reading this blog to do the same.  *** I change my oil at 3000 miles, only use premium gas, and the same thing happened to me in the fairly cold environs of Michigan.  Hot or cold doesn't matter.  It's a fun to drive, unreliable, dangerous lemon.  

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