Automotive Forums

Yes.  The proof is in sales.  Trucks, rental cars purchases and mini-vans are the main reason why American car companies still exist and even those are being gradually eaten way by imports.  



Reliability will always be an issue but the truth is but people won't admit it,  is the purchase of a car is so much more about personal styling.  The American car companies for some reason cannot understand this and continue to employ good old boys instead on injecting fresh blood into management and development.  They continue to turn out cars that are so "American" in terms of looks, feel, raw materials and accessories  as described by others on this thread.



I do not understand why American companies can't  develop cars with the styling and features of Japanese and European cars that appeal to SO MANY people, including myself.   The American companies can still still serve their current market base by turning out the same stuff, it's called market segmentation.  Toyota, Honda, and Nissan figured this out by branding Lexus, Acura and Infinity.  American companies can do the same.  Just raid the other company's design teams (or the consultants they use).



I would like to see the American car companies do well but for the life of me I don't like any of their products.  I rent cars often for work and everytime I get an American car (90% of the time) I can't wait to get back to my own car.  

"Do American cars suck?"
In my opinion, "hell yeah!"
It sucks in so many ways.

1)The inside/outside looks.
2)The materials they use to construct and the way its put together suck and cheap.
3)The logic of placements and the way things work sucks.
4)Stupid cup holders never work(Well, foreign cars too in this respect).
5)Not fuel efficient.
7)Handling suck.
8)Their dealer facility is ugly and smells.
9)Their naming convention suck, the names Oldsmobile, Buick, and Mercury sounds ancient.
10)Whats with the Professional Grade? Why make it sound special when its really not?
11)ect..

I too am American, I do support American products. However, I also believe in fair marketing. I think foreigners compete fairly in the automobile market. They brought us the excellence of an  Accord,Civic,3 series, E-class,X5, RX,S2000.ect. American car makers are just sour because they lost at the game they invented. Now US car makers use patriotism as excuse to distort US comsumer's mind in an effort benefit themselves. I do sympathized with those workers  who got layed-off as a result. However, if you look at the problem closely, this is not the US consumer's fault for not buying enough domestic cars. The real problem is with US car makers.
Every person between 40 years old -up, I asked if american cars suck, they always protect it stubbornly. They seemed to have more problem problems with japanese car makers than anyone. When I asked someone whether a Ferrari or a Toyota Corolla is more reliable if both were properly maintain, the person responded without hesitant, that a Ferrarri is more reliable but contrary,  stats and reports suggest a corolla is more reliable.

I want US car makers to stop using patriotism as an excuse for their inferior products, and start looking into making better cars instead. I dont think American car makers can compete with  the foreign automobile market anymore. They are done.
In past times, the old american muscle cars  were the bomb.
People will have to start letting that pass time go and assimulate intoa new past time.
If you support car makers that make inferior product, they will always make inferior products. I think its better to boycotte so it will wake them up to the reality.
Like they say, if you can beat them, join them.  

I disagree with the poster.  There's nothing wrong with American cars.  I have bought... 4 new cars --all American made --and never had a problem with any of them.  They didn't "blow up" or fall apart.  I'm driving a 98 Ford Explorer now (since '98) and have never had a problem with it.  Everyone who believes Japanese cars are better and more reliable are victims of misinformation.  Does Japan produce quality cars? Yes, they do but American cars are just as good.  I will never buy a Japanese car.  When I was in the Air Force, I bought a new Ford Aerostar.  Before it was a year old I got orders to Japan and had to sell it.  You know why?  Because Japan doesn't allow American cars to be sold in their country or even for American service members to bring theirs temporarily.  Given that fact and the fact that American cars are just as good I think you can understand why I only buy American.  I find it ironic that the poorest among us, the people who live in the country where there aren't many jobs, are the people who have the most traditional, conservative values and continue to buy American.  It's ironic because those that can afford it the least demonstrate their patriotism by buying American. The next time I see a Japanese car with an American flag on the bumper, I'm going to rip it off --or paste a Japanese flag over it.  Because they have no right to wave the flag.  They've shown where their loyalties lie.  And don't tell me "oh, you can't say a car is built in the USA anymore.  They're made in Mexico and Canada, etc --BULLSHIT.  I don't care if they're made in the heart of the USA.  If the name on the car says Toyota or Honda, guess where the profit made when that car is sold goes.  That's right.  Straight to tokyo.  Straight to Mitsubishi.  Straight to the same companies that built the machines that killed our father, uncles, and grandfathers.  You can make all the excuses and rationalization you want but if you buy or drive a Japanese car, you have demonstrated what kind of person you are.  

I've owned three cars since I was 16, (im 21 now), a Ford Taurus, a Dodge Avenger and a Nissan Sentra SE-R, and I must say that you won't catch me driving an american car ever again.  The ford had a lot of miles on it and started to act up pretty bad, but it was a starter car so I'll forgive it, the dodge was purchased with only 12k miles on it, certified from the dealer and it fell apart at 30k, and I absolutely babied that car.  The avenger seemed like it was designed by a monkey, underpowered and heavy with the turning radius of an aircraft carrier.   I don't know about GM, but I won't even bother giving them a shot.  The nissan is deffinately superior in design and reliablity and will last way beyond after I trade her in in couple years.  American car makers have a long way to go to make up for that bad reputations they've accumulated over the years, and who knows maybe I'll change my mind, but thats not going to be any time soon.  I'll probably step up to another Nissan or a new VW GTI after college, depending on where I'm moving to.  

I have read with great interest the various opinions of everyone here. I have come to my own conclusion. Most people base their automotive choices on their own personal experiences. I have a niece who just loves european cars. She has an audi A4 with 5000 miles on it and has had $18,000 in repairs. $11,000 for a transmission alone. But she likes it and keeps driving it. I have had Chevys, toyotas, hondas, and GMCs. Based on my personal experiences, I prefer to drive GM trucks. My main reason for buying a vehicle is reliability and maintenance costs. I have bought two Toyotas brand new. Both of them have left me stranded in the middle of nowhere. The latest being a 2005 AWD sienna minivan that toyota was unable to design with a spare tire. Instead they put so called run-flat tires on it. Runflats disintegrate at HWY speeds if they lose air pressure and they are impossible to find. I had one disintegrate on me and leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere on I5 in the California desert. With no spare, I was forced to pay $125 to have my brand new $40,000 van towed to a tire shop to spend another $120 for a tire that I will have to swap out for another $350 run-flat when I can find one. Toyota is an arrogant car company that refuses to do anything about my problem. They designed a vehicle with no spare tire and gave me overpriced junk tires that have to be replaced every time they get a nail in them. Now thats taking care of your customer. On the other hand, I drive my GMC 1600 miles through California every month and it has never left me stranded anywhere. It has 110,000 miles on it and I never worry about breaking down. Oh and it has a spare. Toyota has gotten my business for the last time. Rip me off once, shame on you. Do it twice, shame on me. These are just my experiences and that is what I will base my next choice for a vehicle on. It will be a GMC!  

If you Eurotrash and Rice-rocket supporters would drive at least a decent American car you could have room to talk. Lets compare three cars of Japan, Europe, and America. I am thinking Lexus GS 300, BMW 5 Series, and Chevy Corvette Z06. You guys said to pick any American car so I did. These cars can all cost around the same amount of money so lets do a comparo. The Lexus handled so poorly that it hardly sold and the 5 series has so many mechanical problems that they shouldn't even be allowed to put a BMW badge on it. Meanwhile the Corvette blows both of these cars off the road both in performance and styling. It also surely is more reliable because I have never seen a Corvette on the side of the road. You can't tell me that any foreign car can compete with any domestic one. One day when this country has gone to the *** you will be sitting around wondering where all the American companies are and where has all the money that Toyota or Honda took from you. They say it recirculates back into America, but educated people know better. Most of this money goes to Japan and some *** smiling *** will be laughing at you.  

"Meanwhile the Corvette blows both of these cars off the road both in performance and styling. It also surely is more reliable because I have never seen a Corvette on the side of the road."  Its because they are 1.  expensive as hell. 2. the max miles people ever put on them is 75k miles because they are so afraid to drive them thanks to #1.  3 my father used to have a 94 astro and at about 30k miles everything rattled like mad.  Sure the car ran good and lasted to about 130k miles before it blew apart but the interior just fell apart.  He had numerous problems after 80k miles where the sliding door wouldnt open because it was stuck locked and you couldnt unlock it, or he would open it up and it wouldnt close.  My dad for some reason bought another chevy product and got a silverado and the thing has 30k miles and hes allready been to the chevy dealership 5!!! times to get things fixed on it.  My dad babies all his cars and wont eat any food or drinks in them, changes the oil every 2000 miles and everything.  Hes great on his cars and they keep falling apart.  I'm just glad that ive never owned one because im kinda hard on my cars and i need a car that can put up with my abuse.  I cant imagine how an american car would do with me.  I think after 20-30k miles it would be just about done.  I think ill stick with mitsubishi considering i put 100k hard driven miles on my GSX and brought it up to 243k miles and had no issues.  I only ever did oil changes on that car.  No other issues ever.  I cant say ill see myself purchasing an american car anytime soon  

Well I think they do is most ways, but it somes down to MONEY and what you like lol Well I own tons of cars and all of them I like for each way it was made here my list...

Porsche 944s 87's and Boxtser 97's
Land Rover RR LWB 93's, 95's and RR 4.0 SE 97's
Jeep Cherokee 86's 95's and Grand 97's as well Wrangler 88's
Chev C10 Pick-Up 62's
Ford F150 C 79's
Toyota Cam 90's
and my new buy Honda 05's

Now from that each car I love in some way, but I sold most and in this summer I'm thinking of getting that Porsche SUV lol I don't remember how to spell the name lol Well for really harcore suff Land Rover and Jeep are great, Jeep as been I think one of the best American cars out there very good all the way around just right for anyone and still give alot out even soo I think Land Rover dose better with off-road, but parts and cost to keep them up is way too much than Jeep soo I just drive Land Rover for looks and not off-raod much. From that I love my speed Porsche really gets my eye then any other maker out there I still own my 944's but the boxter I sold because it was giving me a hard time as the 90's Porsches were not that great.. Old one to me are super cool. Only bad thing about old porsche they always need to be fix!! I mean it more than my Chev or ford !! I put already $5,000 into that 944s and I pay only 7k for it, but each time you drive it gives you that feeling of power and love with worry free life...

After that the Chev and Ford are good, but the new ones just SUCK!! OMG I hate each of the new cars, but the old one WOW very cool all away around from the very eaasy eng to work on as well just soo spimle is a good things at times now the Chev C10 is really nice for looks and power and well I need to do little with it, it's a 309 6cly with a 4 speed and I love it, not much inside, but just for showing off it good. Now the ford is much bigger with 406 V8 in there and 5 speed. I use it to work as well play, the body is not even close to being good as the chev been redone, but it work and I keep on using it.. Well I think that what I like as well I'm more of a Porsche fan than anything wouldn't mine having a 935 is I had the money ohh well I can dream on and maybe just build my own car, but that Porsche SUV is alread coming close to what I dream of.. As well why I got the Honda because they SAVE GAS!! The price is a killer and my Land Rover cost way too much to fill it..

Fox  

I have just read alot of this thread and there is alot I agree and disagree with on both sides of the issues.

The one point that stuck in my head the most was, People will always compare a car based on past experience.

I have only ever owned two cars, a honda and an acura, but have worked on many, many diffrent cars..

As far as reliability goes, it seems like there are always some cars in the bunch that will out last other same year/make/and model. I have friends that owned mustangs which have lasted forever and other friends with mustangs that break down constanlty. I currently own a rsx pushing 300whp, boosted at 12psi for over 50,000 miles (95,000 miles total)...  On a 11 to 1 compression ratio engine. for a daily driver, based on this experience alone I would say the k20a engine, in my mind, is almost indestructable, and this train of thought trickles down to the rest of the honda family...at the same time I have other friends who despise them because of bad expereiences. This pattern is fairly common in every car company/make/model. And depending on if you get the good one or the "quasi-lemon" will usually determine what your future perception of that particular brand of car will be.

Thats it.


Thanks  

"Will this American car nightmare never end?"

For you, probably not. But there are plenty of folks out there content, even happy, with their domestic vehicles, finding the brands you named--Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari--either ridiculously overpriced, too firm, unreliable and costly to repair, or just plain boring looking or ugly.  

Well just coming from Dr. Ing. h.c F. Porsche about how he would build a car. I think from what I seen that it's about how you are going to use it and not what make it better than the other car, each prosche I seen was made for something. With that new Cayenne from porsche. I went to do a test drive with it and even beating it on off-road and going speed that would kill you in any other SUV. I think it was build for speed and off-road all in one. Almost as good as a Jeep or Land Rover.. So really it's the way its build to me..

Ing = engineer <> He knew what he wanted in a car, a dream car F. Porsche  

Post it two times. sorry  

If you think about it all cars are crap, any car can last forever as long as you maintain the vehicle. Most americans lack the maintenance of vehicles. Honda has addapted the most functional service intravals of any other automaker and has had it as far back as i can remember. Honda reccomends services every 7500 or every 10000 miles depending on which car. An example of a 30,000 service on say a 98 Honda accord would involve a valve adjustment, spark plug inspecition, coolant, Oil, transmission fluid, and brake fluid all to be changed. GM and other compaines dont have service interavals. in other words change it when it starts messing up. I dont understand why they dont change and also addapt the service intravals and such of honda. that is why honda has built its name and its company of " quality cars "  

well I seen it both ways, I never had a car that really been bad to me, just need a little TLC and it work great. In most case "quality" is a very wide word for cars. Quality to me is something you can beat on and it will still keep going, like a Jeep you can beat on it for years and never do anything to it as my dad never did anything to his Jeep and 4 years later WOW! everthing was leaking and a mess. I drive hard as well soo that will change on any car. Trust me Honda suck to me when it comes to beating on it, I broke the wish bone on my car two times because I was driving hard with it, now I do the same with a porsche and I have. Never happen soo "quality" is not about how you care about the car, it's how long it will last if you don't lol any car can last long if you care for it..

Fox  

Man you got it way mixed up Foreign cars are crap.  And not only do you like foriegn cars you hate american I really hope that you are not an american.  YOU BRING DISCRASE TO YOUR COUNTRY!