Automotive Forums

One final comment:  the American market for manual transmissions is different than the European market.  Reason?  Comparably cheap gas.  95% of cars sold in the states are automatic boxes.  Most of the rest are strip-model econoboxes.  Therefore yes, a European company will probably opt to spend more on the manual transmission shifting quality than an American company for the same basic transmission (from the same transmission supplier, usually).  More gear syncros or better syncro materials.

American cars are dreadful.  I suspect this has a lot to do with American roads. If you don't have any corners there is little point making a car that can go round them.  American tires are also awful, zero grip in the wet, you may as well be on ice.  I used to know someone with a Camaro. Hilarious, went like a rocket up to a corner, then you had to toddle round like an old granny. Hopeless.
I don't know why you are all banging on about bloody huge pick-ups, they aren't cars!
Somebody also made a good point about fuel economy. You should be ashamed to use as much fuel as you do.
 

TO ALL AMERICANS :

Dear Americans. Me as a European myself, can only laugh. Here is my opinion, I do not say it is the right one, but as a captain of an Airbus 321 I hope I get some respect, which by the way is hard to get if one ever disagrees with many Americans.


Forget all this BMW 325i and all that garbage. For the price you get that for in the US, in Europe you get an M3. The random Joe in Europe drives such models, as well as the Audi A3 etc, all middle class cars. The ridiculous part is, the cars are not good, not reliable, too high in maintenance (especially in the US), and on top of that for the price you Americans pay for a European Middle Class car, you can buy a luxury car.


The questions are : Do you value design over performance and economy ?

By far European cars beat any American Design. That is internal and exterior. It is just a fact you Americans have to respect, I mean your new Fords and GMCs etc look ridiculous but they got something under the hood that I really like, which is a good robust engine.

European Engines are Chiccy Miccy, pain in the *** to touch, an oil change is about all I can do, on top of that it is way too complex. Requires more maintenance than an American car.
American Engines by far beat European engines for normal daily vehicle operation. If you want to a racing car to go to jail or kill yourself with, then buy a European Car, if you want a car that doesn t break down and fullfills your daily needs to drive you to office then BUY an American car, Mustang or whatever, accept the horrible design, but SAVE the money and effort for a stupid middle class European car, a Mustang is better than a  BMW325i, by far.

And stop buying FErrarris etc, YOU CANNOT RACE IN THE USA, in some European countries you can and get away with it, in the US you will die or go to jail so stop driving your ferraris with automatic transmission.

Thanks  

american man wrote:

yes you are a idiot. if you live in this country you should buy american car end of story. FORD GM jerk AL

pauto wrote:

First of all there are not many smooth roads left in America so where are you enjoying your smooth ride, you asked for peoples opinions I gave mine from a automotive technicians standpoint American cars are much easier and less expensive to service than any BMW 3,5 or 7 series, sorry but that is a fact. Oh by the way even at $3.30+ a gallon I can still afford to keep all my vehicles slam full thanks to working on your dream car.

tommy m wrote:

no not me i am glad u got a foreign import - just think god put so many on this earth that r wrecktems and if ur one that make my chances a lot slimmer of me being one /did u ever think y the guy next door dosent paint his house //no job // and things made in the usa are a lot better then the old days// ur friends may smile to ur face but only if u heard what they say behind ur back/ i would be ashamed to bye a for/car and my friends dont have a job//now what side of the fence will u be on

I love it! Only a mechanic would spell rectums "wrecktems". Actually, as more rectums occur in our society, the chances are that any one individual will be a rectum increases--Central Limit Theorem. I'm amazed of all the foreign brands that are actually assembled here in the US. The differences seem to be in management style and quality controls.

ajeep wrote:

I completely agree with you. And not to mention the resale value of an American car SUCKS even MORE!!

Robert Farago wrote:

I've often been accused of having it in for American cars. That's probably because I do. Ever since my first car, a Ford Pinto station wagon, I've been disgusted with the quality, ride, handling and general refinement of American-made cars.

The first time I got behind the wheel of a Mercedes, I understood quality. The first time, I drove a BMW, I understood ride. The first time I drove a Porsche, I understood handling. The first time I saw a Ferrari, I understood art.

So here we are, more than twenty years later, and the status is still quo. American cars are praised for their quality, yet I've driven nothing made in this country-- I mean by one of our Big Three automakers-- that makes me think that Detroit "gets it". There's no American car I know of that can live up to its foreign competition in [an admittedly subjective] measure of quality.

Chrysler has some good stuff, Caddy has some better stuff, but close your eyes (on a closed course with a professional driver) and you'd never think for a second you were anywhere but in a Yank tank. In the main, American cars still float and drift alarmingly and offer-up gobs of model airplane plastic. They still feel drive, look and feel cheap.

Have I been so traumatized by American cars that I've become reverse xenophonic? Someone please tell me what American car can meet or beat a 3 Series or Lexus in the overall sense of here, by God, is a well-made car that handles like a dream. Will this American car nightmare never end?

hey you better dance with the girl u brought .. good or bad u better buy USA or look 4 a job in a over seas paper  

Nepattern,
Notice how you mentioned all older models. By the way BMW now includes all service with their cars. Also, I was going to buy a Charger cause I thought finally a decent looking american car, but sit inside and it feels like my nephews power wheels, cheap plastic.
You are also comparing a 75 civic with a new civic. You are crazy. Go watch Gung Ho. There is a famous line from the movie when something was being put incorrectly in a car, "let the dealer deal with it".  

Chrysler transmission engineer wrote:

One final comment: the American market for manual transmissions is different than the European market. Reason? Comparably cheap gas. 95% of cars sold in the states are automatic boxes. Most of the rest are strip-model econoboxes. Therefore yes, a European company will probably opt to spend more on the manual transmission shifting quality than an American company for the same basic transmission (from the same transmission supplier, usually). More gear syncros or better syncro materials.  

I question how many cars any of these posters have actually had - and I question whether most know anything about cars, other than what they read or are told to think.  First, you can't lump all American cars in a group, just like you can't lump all Japanese cars in group.

I've had over 20 cars in 25 years of driving.  Some new, some used and some old.  I've had two Hondas that were crap.  I've had a crappy Chevy and Pontiac.  I've had a Pontiac, Plymouth and Mazda that were flawless.

Your Nissan has 200K miles - so, I've driven a Ford, Oldsmobile and Chevy with 250K+.  My Honda blew a head gasket at 78K...

My take:  Most posters all mindless consumers that do what they want, do what they're told with little or no thought to the larger reprucussions.  It's your inalienable right to purchase whatever you want in the most selfish self-indulgent means possible.

When you buy a Japanese, or any foreign car - you kill American jobs.  Period.  When you buy cheap Chinese made clothing from Wal-Mart - you kill American jobs.  And while you think you're being smart, or hip, or penny-wise - you're cutting away the very base that has made this county great.  "I get great resale value with my Toyota" - yet you'll gripe when schools are properly funded.  Did you think for a second that you may have cut a job, thus cutting your tax base?  "Crime is horrible!"  Maybe you should have thought about the guy, who has a family to feed too - can't find a proper job to provide for them.  "But Toyota builds cars in America!"  First, Toyota doesn't provide anywhere near the jobs GM and Ford do.  Anywhere near....

And second, in our war minded times, consider this:

Between 1940 and 1945 automotive firms made almost $29 billion worth of military materials, a fifth of the country's entire output. The list included 2,600,000 military trucks and 660,000 jeeps, but production extended well beyond motor vehicles. Automotive firms provided one-half of the machine guns and carbines made in the United States during the war, 60 percent of the tanks, all the armoured cars, and 85 percent of the military helmets and aerial bombs.  Dear Mr. Tagushi, can we borrow your factory to help protect our country?

When you buy anything - money becomes like water in our economy.  You can either pour it on the ground and watch it wash away, or pour it from pitcher to cup.  Only one of those ways do you get to drink the water...

We Americans are pigs, bleeding a slow death - and we deserve it.

 In responce to Mr. American here, you need to pull your head out!  Your first mistake is admitting to everyone that you drive a Dodge Ram...  They are by far the most worthless truck every made.  I grew up on a very large ranch in Western Nebraska, and our family has used all three of the main trucks Ford, Dodge and Chevy...  I'm not a big ford fan, but they still out performed Dodge and Chevy both, but the trucks that always out lasted this american
made junk is Toytoa!  We run Toyotas all over the farm, and one of them has over 600,000
miles, and We use our trucks hard!  There is no *** footing around with what our trucks are meant for, and I'll tell you now, the only thing these big american trucks have going for them are their big diesel engines.  The Duramax, Powerstroke, and cummings are all good for the pulling we need, but it sucks when the rest of the Truck goes to crap.  My dad is a penny pincher, and he tracks every dollar spent on these trucks, and it cost us a ton more to keep the American trucks running vs. our Toyotas or Nissans.  You talk about parts being so high priced, but your on crack!  Sure for a BMW, Mercedes, or Porche they may be a little out there, but I'm talking about honda, toyota, nissan, mit, and other reasonable priced foreign trucks and cars!  They are no more or less!  I run a property dmg division in the Insurance buisness now,  I see and pay for these parts every day, and it's just not true... If you want to talk about expensive parts, just replace some of the parts on your dodge that are not related to the engine that Dodge didn't even build.  Just the fender for your truck is 500.00..
What a screw job!  Ford puts stripe tape down the sides of their trucks that cost up to 400
for just stipes!  I guess they have to make up the dwendling profits somewhere since they are not selling anymore!
Last I would just like to say that resent polls show that the percent of americans that will buy only american made vehicles is down to 44%.  The other 56% say they would rather have a foreign car or truck, and it's said that Toyota is about to surpass ameriacan made car sales!
Also, every year the car results come out, and Toyota, and Honda are at the top.  The biggets thing is that they hold their value more than any other cars, especially american made cars.  Bottom line is that we just don't build as good of vehicles.

PS
Its good to be an American, and as you I'm proud to be an American, but I'm not  about
to push an American made car around when I can drive a Toyota 300,000 miles, never drop a dime in it, and still get good money for it when I trade it in!

If there is one issue that really bugs me it is this notion that all american jobs are gonna be lost if you buy internationally. I guess there are few economists among us here, but to practice this kind of protectionism is not just morally questionable, but also downright stupid:  By taking advantage of comparable advantages is a much better way to deal with this sort of things, but it would mean that the american car industry would need to reallocate itself to other professions (you seem to be quite able to make guns). The ridiculously strong unions in American car industry is also a real pain in the *** as it pays out pensions to fifty year old guys who sit on their asses complaining about "the foreigners" coming to "steal" American jobs....a job isn't something you're ENTITLED to..its something you EARN as a result of your and your fellow employees (including your bosses') skills. If they can do the job better than an American, then there should be no question about it....still its also a question of market segments:
First of all: European cars break down more often cuz they figured out they should put every little piece of high-tech in them, including the voice phone, pc's, anti-lock brakes, slip control, all sorts of driving computers that always break etc. The problem may be small, but the car often tells you the problem by flashing big red lights and playing loud warning sirens (for example, the temprature gauge of my SL went broke and the car started yelling at me almost for leaving this problem unsolved)...
Also, there's heavy taxtation of cars in European markets, so a car is a huge investment in any case, which means that cars are a luxury good: Price elasticity isn't as great, meaning that there's not really any reason for luxury brands such as the German ones to save any money when equipping their cars...
Finally...the fact that you can't fix a german car may say more about your automotive skills than the complexity of the car itself...

And finally finally...I really think "Pimp my ride" says so much about american car culture: You see these guys spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on awesome sound and visual equipment, but they wrap it in cardboard and to be honest, its just apallingly little interest in genuine engineering, but rather a way overdone emphasis on phallic symbolism, just like the SUV's are substitutes for security measures like a gun (what do most americans need an F150 for anyways???

Finally: Stop emitting all that *** carbondioxide..its cool that you like your cars, but please try and make us stay on this planet than a mere million years will ya

cheers

I have two examples of American cars that suck.

#1 I owned a 1994 Ford SHO. The Japanese-built engine was great.  The car had over 140,000 miles when I sold it, and the engine was still perfect.  However, almost all of the Ford-built parts, including the automatic transmission, had broken by about 100,000 miles.

#2 I currently own a 2001 Olds Aurora 4.0.  With less than 68,000 miles on the odometer, it has had a transmission oil leak, main engine oil leak, power steering fluid leak, coolant leak, upper ball joints replaced, tie rod ends replaced, 3 wheel bearings replaced, a faulty sun roof, crank sensors replaced (twice), and an air conditioner leak.  

Give me one good reason to buy another American car.