Automotive Forums

vooakeless wrote:

there isnt a big difference between synthetic and regular motor oils.. their both about the same and the "optimum performace" oils are just a money making sceem.. use the oil type that the car requires ex. 10w30 10w40 5w30 etc.

vooakeless wrote:

if you have high mialege vehicles stay with the oil you have been using change it more often and change the filter everytime you change the oil and vise versa no reason to flip flop all the time

wtsang wrote:

The general consensus is that synthetic oils are indeed better than conventional motor oil, mainly that it reduces internal friction better than normal oil, can withstand more heat an cold extremes and as a result, can be run in engines longer before needing to be changed. The previous reply by Crunchy Cookie may mislead you into thinking that Castrol "Syntec" is not a true 100% synthetic, but it is. He probably wasn't thinking of Castrol Syntec in particular when he threw out that phrase. I believe there is a Castrol Syntec Blend though which is not 100%. I always run full synthetics in my cars and I would not use anything except synthetics. Mobil 1 is by far one of the most popular and reliable brands of synthetic oil. You can find it a quite decent prices at warehouse places like Costco, I think I get it for $32 a case, it's often even less when Walmart has them on sale. Amsoil is also very highly regarded but harder to get and more expensive as is Shell Helix which is used by Ferrari. My M3 uses Castrol TWS Synthetic from the factory.

WalMart sells SuperTech full syn oil made by Warren Oil Co $12.88 for five quarts and their SuperTech Honda filter for $2.10 made by Champion labs. The oil meets the same API specs as Mobil 1 and costs half as much. Honda says leave their break in oil for 10K miles, but that's your choice. Personally I'd change oil & filter every 7.5K miles and you Honda will run 200K miles no sweat.

I'm getting an 07 Civic Si 197 HP and I can't wait. I have money invested that will payoff in 2007 so the Civic Si is first on the list to buy. :-)
 

OD wrote:

WalMart sells SuperTech full syn oil made by Warren Oil Co $12.88 for five quarts and their SuperTech Honda filter for $2.10 made by Champion labs. The oil meets the same API specs as Mobil 1 and costs half as much. Honda says leave their break in oil for 10K miles, but that's your choice. Personally I'd change oil & filter every 7.5K miles and you Honda will run 200K miles no sweat.

I'm getting an 07 Civic Si 197 HP and I can't wait. I have money invested that will payoff in 2007 so the Civic Si is first on the list to buy. :-)

WOJOBATTIER,
Amsoil makes a series 2000, 100% synthetic oil.  It is good for a minimum of 25,000 miles.
Along with that I recomend an EAoil filter from Amsoil which is also good for 25,000 miles or 1 year.  Together they should give you the best overall performance and protection.
If you go with this program pick up an extra oil filter and an extra quart of oil.  At 6 months or 12500 miles you will want to change the oil filter and top off the oil.  Then you will be good to go.
Lets also do some math.
If you get your oil changed at average $30.00 per every 4,000 miles @ 6 oil changes = $ 180.00 est.
If you buy Amsoil once with extra quart of oil and filter it would be less than $100.00
You also would only have to worry about changing your oil once and then all you have to do is change out the oil filter at the 12500 mile mark.  I think their is a money savings as well as a convience thier for one.  Along with the protection and performance features you get with the product.
I hope this answers your questions  http://Xtremesynthetic.com  

wojobattier wrote:

Thanks for the responses guys, i really appreciate it. A couple more questions came up for me while i was reading your responses, see if you can help me out.

1. Both of you mentioned that you can go longer on a synthetic oil change interval rather than a regular oil interval. My question is, How long between oil changes with synthetic oil should i wait to keep optimum performance, which is the main reason why i'm thinking about doing this.

2. With synthetic oil being on a longer interval, what's the deal with the oil filter that gets changed at the same time, do most normal oil filters have the quality that i need to be able to be changed when i change the synthetic oil at a longer interval, or are there better oil filters that need to be used ??

That's all for now, i know my posts probably paint me at being a newbie to taking care of cars, actually it's quite the opposite, i've worked on my used car that i have now for several years and i'm good at doing maintenance on it, it's just with going to a brand new car, i wanted to get the heads up on the synthetic oil benefits because i'm used to using regular motor oil in my used car that's about to go. Thanks for all your help, i appreciate it.  

wojobattier wrote:

Thanks for the responses guys, i really appreciate it. A couple more questions came up for me while i was reading your responses, see if you can help me out.

1. Both of you mentioned that you can go longer on a synthetic oil change interval rather than a regular oil interval. My question is, How long between oil changes with synthetic oil should i wait to keep optimum performance, which is the main reason why i'm thinking about doing this.

2. With synthetic oil being on a longer interval, what's the deal with the oil filter that gets changed at the same time, do most normal oil filters have the quality that i need to be able to be changed when i change the synthetic oil at a longer interval, or are there better oil filters that need to be used ??

That's all for now, i know my posts probably paint me at being a newbie to taking care of cars, actually it's quite the opposite, i've worked on my used car that i have now for several years and i'm good at doing maintenance on it, it's just with going to a brand new car, i wanted to get the heads up on the synthetic oil benefits because i'm used to using regular motor oil in my used car that's about to go. Thanks for all your help, i appreciate it.  

Benefits of Synthetics
1.  You have longer drain intervals
This means that you don't have to take your car in every 3,000 miles
2.  Performance.  You will notice an increase in horsepower and better miles per gallon.
3.  Synthetics stay at an even temperature.  Patroliums do not!!  They thicken in the extreme cold and boil away in the extreme hot.
4.  Better start-ups. With Petrolium oils, they settle at the bottom of the oil pan.  Synthetics stay attached to your engines vital parts. I.E. the pistons, rings, cylinder walls etc.  What the benifit is, is that you have a film of synthetic oil between the engines parts at all times. That reduces wear dramaticaly.  Thats actually wear most of the wear on the engine comes from.  The start-up.
5.  With longer drain intervals means less time in the oil change shop. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time.
Good brands!! Wojo thier is only one.  Amsoil.  You can learn more by visiting my online shop.  Xtremesynthetic.com  

Crunchy,
The full synthetic oil from Amsoil is perfect for the every day driver.
Imagine if you didn't have to visit the oil change shop but once a year.
I think in this fast paced world we all live in, we need products like this.  I know I forget to get my oil changed every 3,000 miles.  Thats why I converted to Amsoil and I now change my oil every 25,000 miles.  I do replace my oil filter after 12,500 miles or 6 months though. Amsoil has an EA Oil Filter that is suppose to last the 25,000 miles.
As far as the break in period, that is an old mith to.  Amsoil atleast has additives in the oil to treat the seals in your car so that their will be no need for break in period.  
-Xtremesynthetic  

camaro74-
Before making a switch of any kind, make sure the truck is sound mechanicaly.
Also, you speak of a synthetic blend.  You realize that is going to be part patrolium and part synthetic.  You don't see all the benifits of the full synthetic.
Also, remember that the synthetics are not a cure for engines that are in poor working order.
-Xtremesynthetic  

Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about motorcycles or cars. The following article is intended to help you make a choice based on more than the advertizing hype.

Oil companies provide data on their oils most often refered to as "typical inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical and a few common chemical properties of their oils. This information is available to the public through their distributors or by writing or calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular, premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil is not on the list get the data from the distributor and use what I have as a data base.

This article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a motor oil readily availiable to the public: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc.

Viscosity is a measure of the "flowability" of an oil. More specifically, it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of sheering stress dependent on flow and then to offer continued resistance to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers *** by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at various low temperatures depending on weight, and is therefore suitable for Winter use. 5W is tested at -25C, 10W at -20C, 15W at -15C, and 20W at -10C.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their S.A.E. *** numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is also shown.


_______________________________________________________________
|                                                             |
|      SAE Gear Viscosity Number                              |
|  ________________________________________________________   |
|  |75W |80W  |85W|    90        |        140             |   |
|  |____|_____|___|______________|________________________|   |
|                                                             |
|     SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number                         |
|  ____________________________                               |
|  |10| 20  | 30 | 40  |  50  |                               |
|  |__|_____|____|_____|______|                               |
______________________________________________________________
2  4  6  8  10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C

Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.

Very few manufacturers recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Other multigrade synthetics may not use VI improvers either. The full literature available from the oil company should include this information. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.

Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.

Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendancy for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.

Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.

% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil is reacted with sulfuric acid and burned. This is used to quantify the amount of metallic antiwear and detergent additives in the oil. Zinc dithiophosphate is a common detergent and antiwear additive that is reflected in this test.

% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high reving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high.

The Data: (Note: this data is mostly from 1991 and is for SG rated oils. Some of the data is current, and I am working on collecting the most recent data. I have found over the years that the "better" oils remain the "better" oils. It is still valid as a place to start in your own search. The formulation of oils is constantly being updated and subject to change by the manufacturer at any time. The best thing to do is collect data on the oils you are interested in directly from the oil company.)

[An * after the oil name indicates current SH rated version.]

Listed alphabetically. Empty cells indicate the data was not avaliable.


Brand VI Flash Pour %
ash %
zinc  
20W-50  
AMSOIL* 151 507 -45      
AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47      
Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12  
Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17   .105  
Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1    
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11  
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0    
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16  
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9    
Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20      
Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25          
Red Line 150 503 -49      
Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12  
Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12  
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35   .15  
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35   .13  
Ultra Chem 190 455 -34      
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12  
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11  
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13  
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20  
Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125  
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12  
15W-50  
Mobil 1 170 470 -55      
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15  
Red Line 152 503 -49      
5W-50  
Castrol Syntec* 175 465 <-54   .102  
Chevron Supreme* 175 460 -38 1.45    
Quaker State Synquest* 175 460 -50      
Pennzoil Performax 176   -69      
5W-40  
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4    
15W-40  
AMSOIL* 165 462 -49      
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14  
Chevron Delo 400* 134 424 -38 <1    
Exxon XD3   417 -11 .9 .14  
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13  
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16  
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15  
Quaker State* 129 420 -25      
Quaker State HDX* 146 440 -30 .97    
Quaker State HDX Plus* 148 420 -25 1.37    
Red Line 149 495 -40      
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 146 414 -32 1.0 .12  
Valvoline All Fleet 140   -10 1.0 .15  
Valvoline DuraBlend 137 450 -17 <1.5 .125  
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13  
10W-30  
AMSOIL* 171 464 -54      
Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12  
Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33   .105  
Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54   .102  
Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1    
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11  
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13  
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0    
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16  
Mobil 1 160 450 -65      
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0    
Quaker State* 140 410 -30 .9    
Quaker State 4x4* 135 430 -35      
Red Line 139 475 -40      
Shell Fire and Ice* 155 410 -35 .9 .12  
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 155 405 -37 1.0 .12  
Shell Truck Guard* 155 405 -35 1.0 .12  
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40      
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12  
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11  
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13  
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20  
Valvoline DuraBlend 142 440 -27 <1.5 .125  
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12  
5W-30  
AMSOIL* 186 478 -67      
Castrol GTX* 160 410 -35 1.35 .12  
Chevron Supreme* 167 410 -38 <1    
Chevron Supreme Synt.* 169 468 -49      
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11  
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0    
Mobil 1 165 445 -65      
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1  
Quaker State* 155 405 -35      
Quaker State Synquest* 168 450 -58      
Red Line 151 455 -49      
Shell Fire and Ice* 167 405 -35 .9 .12  
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12  
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11  
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13  
Valvoline DuraBlend 162 415 -38 <1.5 .125  
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12  

Note: * indicates current SH rated oil

All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake.

The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendancy to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justifed in your application.

The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers(typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies(up to 25,000 miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or exterme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics. Some oil companies, AMSOIL being an example, offer their own engine warranties. If the oils are used in compliance with the company's recommendations (including extended drain intervals) and a problem is caused by the engine oil, the company will pay for the repairs. Check with the company for specifics of any warranties offered.

Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification.

The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined with the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the reputation of the oil among others who use it should help you make an informed choice.

Well there you go the real facts about motors oils.  

There is as much difference between synthetic motor oils as there are anything else. There are synthetic oils that are not much different then regular oils and then there are synthetic motor oils that are far superior not only to regular oil but other synthetic oils.There are some synthetics that lst 3000 miles and other that will protect for 35,000 miles. I know I have been studying this since 1986. There is a difference.  

To the group: Hi, everybody! Last year I bought 1996 maxima with 150,000 miles on it. Car hadn't an problems yet even though I drive 70 miles a day and I drive hard. I heard that amsoil synthetic oil is the best. But the question is am I risking engine if I put synthetic oil to engine with 154,000 miles? Is it gonna  break my car's engine or it's OK to put synthetic?
Thanks in advance.  

hi hard driver nick!  well in your case, putting in a synthetic oil would not be a problem.  since you are using it for 70k miles a day, it's going to save you even more money.  but before you put in synthetic, i would advice using an engine flush first from amsoil too, and then use the EA oil filter.  These are what you need.  EAO13 oil filter that you can use for 25K miles or one year.  4.2 Quarts of SAE 10W-30 amsoil synthetic oil.  and 1 amsoil engine flush to clean the internal parts of the engine.  you can go to www.radlynx.ph and click on AMSOIL Online Store to get yourself what you need for your car. let me know if you still need other info.