Automotive Forums

Hey guys, Lets put this mystery to rest once and for all. First of all understand that the lubricant market equates to more than 3.4 billion dollars a year in the US alone. Your grandpas and your dads have been preaching to you from day one that you should change your oil every 3000 miles. Well, question is.. what decade did their information come from. And what choice of product did they have back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's? The quality of engine oils have come a looooooooooong way since then. I am NOT a salesman, I dont run a lube joint, I dont sell oil or filters, but I do run and manage a large fleet of autos containing police cars and large trucks. I am master ASE certified in both auto and heavy duty truck and I have been at it for many many years. I have seen every gimmic under the sun demonstrated in my shop using bearing testers of every type and here is the bottom line.
Synthetic oil is by far the superior method of lubricating your engine for many reasons that you already know about. People want oils that guarantee protection. They want oil companies to put a number on the milage interval question. And that is what Mobil did!  the mineral oil base 5000, The synblend 7500, and 15000 full synthetic.
Come on guys, everyone that owns a repair shop, dealership, lube joint want you to bring your car every 3000 miles and if you dont they loose money.. HELLO! So keep the old myth going, change your oil every 3000 miles just like dear old dad. If you are really worried about your intervals, do an oil analysis every 3000 miles.
As for the filter,  my money is on the MOBIL 1 filter. Reason: Because it is a fiberglass media unlike all your other fram and motorcraft and a/c brands who use celulose. Fiberglass media is what we spec for our close tolerance hydraulic components, which are much finer specs than rod and cam bearings in an engine.  Save time, labor, ***  and make the US less dependent on foreign oil!!! Not to mention less oil to dispose of !  The last time I checked, the cost of synthetic oil had not gone up in price. It has stayed the same. True story. A trucking company in kc ran a test on Mobil syn oil in there fleet and had over 75,000 miles on the same oil without changing it! They do oil analysis every 10,000 miles or so just to check the additive package to make sure its safe and last I read about it they were going for 100,000 miles on the same oil change! Of course they change the filter and top it off with new oil.  READ THIS LINK FOR MORE INFO ABOUT SYN OILS>


http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000351473.cfm?x=b4klrks,b267d0pq
Rich

I am new to the site and have been checking into the pros and cons of synthetic oil.  Thank you so much for the information.  I have a 2004 Honda Civic and drive 100 miles/day for work, my husband is habitual about our oil changes- so we have been having to change the oil once a month (this gets expensive- not only the oil change but the gas as well), so anything we can do to save money is welcomed.  We could never find anything that actually said that it was ok to have longer intervals between oil changes and your post explained it perfectly. Thank you so much!!!!!

Brandi  

hi wojo in reference to filters i would recomend the manufacturers or ac-wix-
(napa and carquest are made by wix)
absolutly dont use fram if you cut one open and compare it to the others you will see why (much less element surface and cardboard instead of metal base)
the shop i work at just replaced a subaru engine that had been recently rebuilt
when the pennzoil filter (made by fram) disitegrated and took the engine out
(customer ignored oil light)  

I was just reading everybody messages and discovered that the differences among synthetic and conventional oils may not be of a big concern. But, a friend was teling me that she was putting sinthetic oil in her 175K  1980 LeBaron Chrysler. I found that very strange and decided to tell her that she would better stay like that. But, woul it be better for her to immediately switch to conventional oil before something bad occurs? I will appreciate if anyone has an opinion. Thanks.  

Dear Brandi:

There's always a solution to every problem especially on your case who drives 100m a day. I would definitely recommend using AMSOIL Synthetic Oi and AMSOIL filter on your car. You can have between oil changes for 25000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. I use AMSOIL Synthetic Oil and AMSOil Filter and only changes my engine oil and filter once a year. by the way, I drive around 15000 miles a year. if you have a turbo engine, oil change and filter change is done every six months.

You can purchase the oil and filter necessary for your car online and once it's delivered on your doorstep, you can bring your car to the dealership and have them change the oil using your own oil and filter. This will save you so much money on oil changes and at the same time you are saving the environment and the country's dependency on foreign oil. Best of luck.

Lemuel

brdvbarlow wrote:

I am new to the site and have been checking into the pros and cons of synthetic oil. Thank you so much for the information. I have a 2004 Honda Civic and drive 100 miles/day for work, my husband is habitual about our oil changes- so we have been having to change the oil once a month (this gets expensive- not only the oil change but the gas as well), so anything we can do to save money is welcomed. We could never find anything that actually said that it was ok to have longer intervals between oil changes and your post explained it perfectly. Thank you so much!!!!!

Brandi

USMCGAGT wrote:

You would be safe running a regular oil in the car, I'd save the synthetics (and the inflated price) for when you get some mileage on it (75K plus), it's the way I've always done it, and it works like a champ. Learned that trick from my grandfather, who has a '78 Dodge truck, 318, with 450,000 miles on it that runs like the day it left the factory.


And as for oil filters, I have yet to have a problem with Fram. They work rather well, and are easy to remove when the time comes, unlike some from AC Delco and Motorcraft. I had to get the oil filter threads "refreshed" one time with a Motorcraft, had to use a screwdriver to get it off, and for some crazy reason, the threads were off on the new filter, making it leak. It went on just fine, but had probably a 1/16" gap on one side......not pretty.

Just my opinion.

wojobattier wrote:

To the group:

hey guys, i'm brand new to the forum here, i'm getting ready to purchase a new Honda Civic and i wanted to find out some information on the benefits of using synthetic oil versus regular oil in the engine. I know it'll be more expensive to do it, but i wanted to find out if anybody could tell me the solid benefits to using a synthetic oil over the regular motor oil, if there are any, and also to point out the good and bad brands to look out for. Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it.

terigox wrote:

Hi everyone, New here and saw some good info in this thread I would just like to pose another question related to this... when switching to a synthetic oil on a new car, after the initial break in on a SAE oil, is there a recommened process for making the actual switch?

For instance, should the old oil just be drained out, the synthetic added, and driven as normal... should the old drained, synthetic added, driven for 1,000 miles, then changed again? I'm just trying to pinpoint the best and safest process for the overall cleanest transition!

Any input you guys can provide would be great

This info has been great! I just bought a friend's well-cared-for 2000 Honda Accord, which has 107K miles on it. I intend to keep it for at least 100K more. Question: "jspech22a" commented previously that it may be too late to switch to synthetic oil on a car that already has over 75K miles. I'm wondering why; I would have guessed better late than never.  So, should I or shouldn't I?? Thanks!
 

IMHO, the ONLY tangable benefit anyone will EVER see by using syn is extended oil change intervals and better flow abilities during extremely cold temps. All of the other claims are a bunch of hooy. If you do a UOA on your dino oil to determine how long it's good for (all are good for 3K, and most will do at least 5K-6K) and stick to those change intervals for that oil and filter, you will never have an oil related problem for the life of that vehicle.  

To Rookie, I work at the  Concorde motorspeedway in Charlotte, NC and I am around different crews all the time who put all these syn. products to the test. Some crews only stay loyal to one product but I have heard great reviews favoring others. I have a similiar situation like yours that I have inquired into previously.I bought a 1992 honda prelude si with 92,000 miles on it. Given it is a car that has breached 13 years of age. I was in the same debate. It was owned by a retired banker from Syracuse who bought the car originally.(it has been in mint condition ever since it roled off the showroom floor) My local mechanic has an incredible Honda Acura shop here in Charlotte North Carolina next to the Concorde Motor Speedway. The foreman who runs the garage  has incredible experience. He worked on the Honda Indy 500 cars and has  won numerous National Honda analysis and repair competitions. I posed this same question to him. Would it be worth converting this baby to synthetic oil? He said that since this car is running the high revving VTEC engine in it. Synthetic oil definitely wouldn't hurt it given the stress the motor is under at higher rpms.(I am pretty hard on it) His exact words " Any car that revs up to 8k would benefit from synthetic formulas."
He suggested that I use the new Castrol Syntec motor oil which btw is (Fully Synthetic).
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetail.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=6030793
Castrol doesn't provide a recommended oil change timeframe which is why I am here at these forums. Let me tell you what he did warn me of though. Your vehicle since it is a 2000(most likely won't be affected). But since mine is racking up the years, he said my oil seals have become conditioned with the traditional oil being ran through it all this time. He explained that oils like the castrol syntec are very fine and may leak through certain oil seals. I replaced the camshaft seals and now the car has been running perfect without any leaks for over 50 thousand miles. The car now has 145,000 and is actually running stronger in my own opinion. I have changed this oil every 10,000 since it seems to be the default that alot of people go by with any synthetic oil. I am constantly doing drives to upstate NY and down to Daytona so I need a road worthy motor that I want to get the maximum out of.
In 5th gear on expressway travel, my rpm band and throttle is much more responsive and smoother sounding now then previously when it was running good old mother nature's oil in it. Since your car is a 2000, your seals are not that old. So I would say go for it. He said that even if my seals might leak (which they didn't after replacing the camshaft seals), it would still be worth it because you are going to have alot more life out of the engine. I don't know if you are running I-VTEC in your current model, but if so, it would be even more crucial for you to get a motor oil that can hold up to the beating. I have been more then satisfied with castrol syntec.Castrol Syntec was specifically designed for Honda, Ford, and Daimler Chrysler motors. Especially motors which require 5w20 motor oil. I just bought a new honda civic VTEC that requires that weight. I am not sure what grade your accord requires but this formula is available in all grades.And this guy who stated that castrol syntec is not fully synthetic has been rolling to much of the good stuff. These products are tested by numerous car magazines and performance shops and evidence shows that they hold up to their advertisements. Look at a motortrend articles and you can see such reports. Mobil, AMoil, and Castrol are all great products. I have just been using Castrol Syntec because it is the newest out and I like to stay with the latest. Put this stuff in your car for one  oil change. It won't hurt. I can tell you right now with a honda with 100,000 miles on it. No synthetic would hurt.For any honda or 4 cylinder motor, synthetic is that much more beneficial because the motors rev higher in order to produce a satisfactory amount of power.  

one more thought.... if your accord is equipted with the 6 cyl- 240 hp. It won't be revving quite as high but synthetic is still the way to go.

eaglemax86 wrote:

To Rookie, I work at the Concorde motorspeedway in Charlotte, NC and I am around different crews all the time who put all these syn. products to the test. Some crews only stay loyal to one product but I have heard great reviews favoring others. I have a similiar situation like yours that I have inquired into previously.I bought a 1992 honda prelude si with 92,000 miles on it. Given it is a car that has breached 13 years of age. I was in the same debate. It was owned by a retired banker from Syracuse who bought the car originally.(it has been in mint condition ever since it roled off the showroom floor) My local mechanic has an incredible Honda Acura shop here in Charlotte North Carolina next to the Concorde Motor Speedway. The foreman who runs the garage has incredible experience. He worked on the Honda Indy 500 cars and has won numerous National Honda analysis and repair competitions. I posed this same question to him. Would it be worth converting this baby to synthetic oil? He said that since this car is running the high revving VTEC engine in it. Synthetic oil definitely wouldn't hurt it given the stress the motor is under at higher rpms.(I am pretty hard on it) His exact words " Any car that revs up to 8k would benefit from synthetic formulas."
He suggested that I use the new Castrol Syntec motor oil which btw is (Fully Synthetic).
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetail.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=6030793
Castrol doesn't provide a recommended oil change timeframe which is why I am here at these forums. Let me tell you what he did warn me of though. Your vehicle since it is a 2000(most likely won't be affected). But since mine is racking up the years, he said my oil seals have become conditioned with the traditional oil being ran through it all this time. He explained that oils like the castrol syntec are very fine and may leak through certain oil seals. I replaced the camshaft seals and now the car has been running perfect without any leaks for over 50 thousand miles. The car now has 145,000 and is actually running stronger in my own opinion. I have changed this oil every 10,000 since it seems to be the default that alot of people go by with any synthetic oil. I am constantly doing drives to upstate NY and down to Daytona so I need a road worthy motor that I want to get the maximum out of.
In 5th gear on expressway travel, my rpm band and throttle is much more responsive and smoother sounding now then previously when it was running good old mother nature's oil in it. Since your car is a 2000, your seals are not that old. So I would say go for it. He said that even if my seals might leak (which they didn't after replacing the camshaft seals), it would still be worth it because you are going to have alot more life out of the engine. I don't know if you are running I-VTEC in your current model, but if so, it would be even more crucial for you to get a motor oil that can hold up to the beating. I have been more then satisfied with castrol syntec.Castrol Syntec was specifically designed for Honda, Ford, and Daimler Chrysler motors. Especially motors which require 5w20 motor oil. I just bought a new honda civic VTEC that requires that weight. I am not sure what grade your accord requires but this formula is available in all grades.And this guy who stated that castrol syntec is not fully synthetic has been rolling to much of the good stuff. These products are tested by numerous car magazines and performance shops and evidence shows that they hold up to their advertisements. Look at a motortrend articles and you can see such reports. Mobil, AMoil, and Castrol are all great products. I have just been using Castrol Syntec because it is the newest out and I like to stay with the latest. Put this stuff in your car for one oil change. It won't hurt. I can tell you right now with a honda with 100,000 miles on it. No synthetic would hurt.For any honda or 4 cylinder motor, synthetic is that much more beneficial because the motors rev higher in order to produce a satisfactory amount of power.

I don't know what to make of CAstrol saying this oil will maximise your horse power. I am sure if it does all this other stuff it says it does, it wouldn't surprise me. But I do feel better response. I think in my early 90's lude's case, it would revive lost horsepower. I could really care less. I am not planning on outrunning wrxs or evolutions.

eaglemax86 wrote:

one more thought.... if your accord is equipted with the 6 cyl- 240 hp. It won't be revving quite as high but synthetic is still the way to go.

eaglemax86 wrote:

To Rookie, I work at the Concorde motorspeedway in Charlotte, NC and I am around different crews all the time who put all these syn. products to the test. Some crews only stay loyal to one product but I have heard great reviews favoring others. I have a similiar situation like yours that I have inquired into previously.I bought a 1992 honda prelude si with 92,000 miles on it. Given it is a car that has breached 13 years of age. I was in the same debate. It was owned by a retired banker from Syracuse who bought the car originally.(it has been in mint condition ever since it roled off the showroom floor) My local mechanic has an incredible Honda Acura shop here in Charlotte North Carolina next to the Concorde Motor Speedway. The foreman who runs the garage has incredible experience. He worked on the Honda Indy 500 cars and has won numerous National Honda analysis and repair competitions. I posed this same question to him. Would it be worth converting this baby to synthetic oil? He said that since this car is running the high revving VTEC engine in it. Synthetic oil definitely wouldn't hurt it given the stress the motor is under at higher rpms.(I am pretty hard on it) His exact words " Any car that revs up to 8k would benefit from synthetic formulas."
He suggested that I use the new Castrol Syntec motor oil which btw is (Fully Synthetic).
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetail.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=6030793
Castrol doesn't provide a recommended oil change timeframe which is why I am here at these forums. Let me tell you what he did warn me of though. Your vehicle since it is a 2000(most likely won't be affected). But since mine is racking up the years, he said my oil seals have become conditioned with the traditional oil being ran through it all this time. He explained that oils like the castrol syntec are very fine and may leak through certain oil seals. I replaced the camshaft seals and now the car has been running perfect without any leaks for over 50 thousand miles. The car now has 145,000 and is actually running stronger in my own opinion. I have changed this oil every 10,000 since it seems to be the default that alot of people go by with any synthetic oil. I am constantly doing drives to upstate NY and down to Daytona so I need a road worthy motor that I want to get the maximum out of.
In 5th gear on expressway travel, my rpm band and throttle is much more responsive and smoother sounding now then previously when it was running good old mother nature's oil in it. Since your car is a 2000, your seals are not that old. So I would say go for it. He said that even if my seals might leak (which they didn't after replacing the camshaft seals), it would still be worth it because you are going to have alot more life out of the engine. I don't know if you are running I-VTEC in your current model, but if so, it would be even more crucial for you to get a motor oil that can hold up to the beating. I have been more then satisfied with castrol syntec.Castrol Syntec was specifically designed for Honda, Ford, and Daimler Chrysler motors. Especially motors which require 5w20 motor oil. I just bought a new honda civic VTEC that requires that weight. I am not sure what grade your accord requires but this formula is available in all grades.And this guy who stated that castrol syntec is not fully synthetic has been rolling to much of the good stuff. These products are tested by numerous car magazines and performance shops and evidence shows that they hold up to their advertisements. Look at a motortrend articles and you can see such reports. Mobil, AMoil, and Castrol are all great products. I have just been using Castrol Syntec because it is the newest out and I like to stay with the latest. Put this stuff in your car for one oil change. It won't hurt. I can tell you right now with a honda with 100,000 miles on it. No synthetic would hurt.For any honda or 4 cylinder motor, synthetic is that much more beneficial because the motors rev higher in order to produce a satisfactory amount of power.

New too, but couldn't resist.

How to respond to it all?  I have done a lot of research trying to figure out the answers to the same questions posed here.  I have talked to all the major manufacturers of synthetic oils and to mechanics of various stripes (experienced, supposed experienced, oldtimers, and some users).  I am unhappy to report that I am not a lot wiser after it all.  There is so much conflicting information out there it is hard to sift through....even on this thread there seems to be some contradictions withn individual posts.

Some recommend "through experience" that you can leave synthetics in for 50,000 miles or more if you filter it well (change it often - every 10,000)  and have a secondary bypass filter to catch the very fine particles.  the manufacturer of Synlube-4Life actually says you never have to change it! And then of course there are those who say change it every 3000 miles regardless of what the manufacturers say.  Oddly enough, the oil manufacturers themselves rarely suggest you go longer than the car manufacturer's specification intervals - while at the same time stating that their oil is good for 15,000 (or 50,000) miles or more.....? Do I hear the sound of spin?  What does a car manufacturer know about "other" oils unless they have tested their cars on them?  I have yet to talk to one that has!  They are covering their hind-ends of course and the oil manufacturers like to sell oil too, but don't want to get a bad rap from the car manufacturers....all very incestuous and back scratching it seems.  In my opinion, anyone with less than twenty years of experience with a given product (that hasn't extensively tested by independent labs and the data available) shouldn't make pronouncments about what is "best".  There are simply too many variables in these issues to make any kind of real or accurate assessment in less than that time - and then only if  careful records have been kept. Everyone likes to be an expert, but be wary of anyone that quotes information from the brochure of an oil manufacturer without backing it up with other and independent science or test information.   Brochures are sales pitches and possibly starting places for verification research.
Everyone has an opinion on which  is better or worse - just be sure you know whether it is in fact an opinion or not - they often come disguised as "fact" .

These threads get the discussion going, but don't seem to attract much real information

As for myself?  I have come to the conclusion like many that synthetics are in fact better in all aspects.  It is up to me to decide if the extra money is worth it- anyone elses opinion on that one is irrelevant unless they have been my accountant/mechanic for twenty years. There are simply too many people with too many reasons to use a specific product for anyone else to even guess what works for someone else on that score.  The questions that remain are  filtering and the change interval - these both change the economics too of course.  Filtering seems to be a good thing, and unless the filters take out the additives (which are often off-the-shelf petroleum oil carrier ones -even in synthetics) I can't really see how it can be a bad thing to do better at it.  Oil change intervals are the kicker......I continue to search for real answers on that one.  Having gone through the replies here, I move on for those answers.

Cheers

SH  

you are right sworhors. with so much information out there, confusion is what makes us decide for what we were brought to believe in. research, experience, history, testimonials and tests conducted on a certain product is the key to a better understanding. but the question is, are you getting the right information? since you are trying to understand and research this information, you may check this website http://www.amsoil.com and read more all about the tests they did in comparison with competing products. read also if possible all the testimonials.

i did my own research too and ended up with AMSOIL.  your small contribution into saving the enviroment is going to give the childrens of the future a better world and at the same time we save this country from being dependent on foreign oil.

people needs to be informed that they don't need to change their oil every 3,000 or 5K miles. they should change it longer. companies who says every 3K/5K only wants business from you guys. try counting the numbers if you change your oil every 3K/5K with millions of people. how many gallons of oil would it take in a year that is wasted? hope this helps.