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After reading all these threads, i cringe to think that i got duped when i purchased a 2006 odyssey touring for my newly made family. I'm in Ontario Penske Honda in SoCALIF for a service due light on my van. For sure, the Michelin PAX tires need rotation. The 2 front wheels are going bald at 19,000 miles despite recurrent attempts of adding air to these tires. All 4 Wheels where balanced before. I'm on a holding pattern to see what these HONDA PENSKE dealership will tell me. Will post a thread thereafter...  

The Michelin Pax system has been discontinued.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/automobiles/20TIRES.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Basically, you're all screwed.  

After reading all of the posts on this forum, I decided to take the route that us old hot rodders have been doing for years - after all, if I could fit a small block Chevy into a Triumph TR3, couldn't I deal with this silly tire issue?  I refused to be held hostage by Honda and Michelin.  

(However, a brief footnote here: I worked for 43 years in the American auto industry, as an engineer and engineering manager for a plant that made safety products.  Once the lawsuits start, your hands are tied.  Even though there might be a quick fix, you are forbidden to discuss it.  Honda and Michelin can't be helpful, even if they wanted to.)

My solution for my 2006 Touring turned out to be relatively simple.  With the help of a great Acura dealership in Georgia I purchased a set of 2008 MDX Sport wheels and tires which were new vehicle take-offs.  Zero miles on them.  I originally found them via an eBay ad, and while I didn't buy the advertised set, they had more. After several phone calls we struck a deal, I built a rack to haul the extra set in the back, and loaded my wife and her mom up for a day trip (or a bit more, since it's 670 miles from central Ohio to the Georgia destination.) My experience with the Acura dealership was nothing short of amazing.  On a scale of 10, they get an 11.

I have put roughly 3000 miles on the Odyssey since the change, and I am thrilled, in spite of the warnings and threats from my local Honda dealer.  Not everything is perfect yet, but manageable.  Here are the pros and cons:

o The wheels are 18 inch with Michelin Latitude tires - however they are two sizes larger than the Pax tires - 255 vs 235.

o Being larger, they really fill up the wheel wells.  I am warned of clearance issues but after two fully loaded trips, haven't experienced them.  I am a gentle driver, however, and stick to decent roads.

o I'm told by several sources that the offset is the same as the Pax wheels.  Did not confirm.  

o The ride and handling are vastly improved.  All of the harshness is gone, super quiet, now tracks true over bumps and tar strips.

o Because of the size difference, the speedometer and odometer are off about 4% - meaning an indicated 70 mph is actually 73 according to my GPS.

o Fuel economy, per the information display did not vary much.  However, if you factor in the odometer error of 4%, gas mileage actually improved about 1 mpg.  We drove to NC last week and averaged about 25 plus.

o The Acura MDX TPMS sensors don't talk to the Odyssey receivers.  Therefore, each time you start the engine, about one mile down the road you get a bold yellow TPMS message. Hit the "i" button once and it doesn't bother you anymore until the next fresh start.  I have the part numbers for the Odyssey sensors, and they are about $100 per set online, but I'm not sure I'm gonna bother.  I rotate my own tires, but don't wish to have to go back to the dealer each time for reprogramming.

o All of the warnings from the dealer(s) about screwing up the suspension, engine calibrations, etc, have been non-issues for me.

o And saving the best for last, it changed the whole appearance of the vehicle.  My van was parked in front of a normal Odyssey at a filling station, and the difference in appearance is amazing.  Looks more like an XUV than a soccer mom van.  

If you have questions or comments, contact me direct at mxz5@aol.com.    -Mark  

I have a 2005 touring Honda Minivan. I only drive locally and I took a long trip once.  I drove to Florida from Georgia and after about 200 miles felt a vibration on the wheel. I took the minivan to a Honda dealership in Orlando and was told that my front tires needed to be replaced (my car has 21000 miles), and they also said that it was because I had never had my tires rotated.  What?! How is this possible? I always got my car serviced at my local Honda dealership!!!!, the replacement was over 750 for 2 tires. I drove around to other tire shops, and it turns out, only Honda has the tires and the specialists to change them. So I had to do it, because it was not safe to drive with those tires anymore.  
As soon as  I returned home took my car to my dealer, and was shown on their records how many times my tires had been rotated.  The service repairman also told me that they have seen this in the past, and that the PAX tires have very short lives.  Also the size of the wheel only allows these tires, and can not be replaced with others.  
I did a web search, and there are a couple of class action suits against Honda and Michelin, but the one in California is on appeal because it was originally dismissed.  When I purchased the car nobody told me about how difficult was going to be to take care of these "very special tires", nor that I could not change them to something else. Moreover there is an article in the NY times from April of this year, where Michelin is pulling these tires from the market.  I am sure their short life and the lawsuits have something to do with it, although they deny it!
I also read on that same article that they don't recommend using any other tire in the Honda minivan, because the suspension is designed for that specific tire!!! Ridiculous!!!
So what do I do now?   As you said, we were not told these things, and I really hope that the law stays in our side and a class action is the way to go.  I don't know how else we can get anything.  In the meantime I am getting ready to replace the rear tires soon, because I was told in my last visit to the dealer that they were going to need replacement in the next few thousand miles.  

I bought a new Honda in 2006 and have had problems with the tires. Had to have one fixed ata cost of 147.00, for a flat, which was not covered by Honda or Michelin. Now I have another that is leaking and I can't find a PAX repair facility. I was told to take it back to the Honda dealership but they add 15% for the service, as they send it out and would not tell me where they sent it. I have now investigating getting new tires (not PAX) and rims and of course I have to get five tires and rims. If there is a class action suit I would be happy to join. Oh, I called the 800 number for PAX tires and they can't find a PAX repair facility in my area. Please let me know   moranjohn@optonline.net  

I am soo sorry I just found this site.  I will do what ever I can to help you with this site if needed.  I am fussing with purchasing my second set of tires - yes all 4. And Michelin's response to me was that I should purchase a vehicle that fit my needs.  

I have a 2006 Odyssey Touring, unfortunately... Please let me know if there is a class action to join. This is truly a bad move by Honda. I can guratantee this will be my last Honda (currently 2nd one) and last Michelin Purchase! Of course I need 4 new tres after 25K!! argue5@comcast.net  

05 Touring. PAX free for over 20k miles. Here's how I did it.

Four TPMS sensors, part #06421-S3V-A04, for $32.78 ea,
a rim for the spare tire, part #42700-shj-A51, for $40.19
spare mounting hardware, parts 74666-SHJ-A00 and 83853-SHJ-A00, for $7.00
All from BernardiParts.com

Four '06 Acura RL wheels from eBay for $280 total including shipping

Four 235/60TR17 Kumho Solus KH16 Tires, $77.00 ea
One T135/80MD-17 Goodyear convenience spare tire, $89.00. shipping was $50
from Tirerack.com

I was able to get all 5 tires mounted for free, so I can't say what that would cost.
The spare mounts in the well behind the back seat on the driver's side.

That's it. much nicer ride, and slightly better mileage too.
I had to do all this myself because I couldn't get help from Honda,Michellin or Tirerack. Fortunately, I found some pioneers at the odyclub.com forums who paved the way.
Changing the system cost almost as much as a new set of PAX tires, but I now have tires that will last much longer, and I can replace them anywhere I want for a lot less money and a whole lot less aggravation. It's pretty easy to pick which silver Ody is mine in the parking lot at soccer now too.


NOTE: The TPMS sensors reprogram automatically after about 1/4 mile(pretty cool).
     So, no need to go to the dealer for that.
     I rotate my tires regularly, and have had no problems.  

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We purchased a Sienna 04 LE in Canada.  The dealer extolled the virtues of run flats and sent us on our way.  The tires on the van were Michelin Energy LX4's.

When I recently investigated tire replacement, I decided to go with the flow and dump the run flats.  It seemed that the Energy LX4's were still on the market, but nothing about run flat capability anywhere in 2008.

When I got the tires replaced at the local tire shop, there was no sign of the PAX run flat system.  These are not the same tires as the hard walled Dunlops that were the reason behind the class action suit in the states for the Sienna.  It looks like the dealer illegally sold me a van without a spare OR a run flat system.  

Mileage - I squeeked out 40000miles on the tires but was essentially running on slicks by this summer (had winter tires and rims for the snowy stuff).

Stay tuned for more from this peeved consumer.  

Just read the NYT article about the discontinuation of the PAX system. Ugh! I just replaced the PAX tires on my 05 Odyssey in 12/2007 at about 47K miles. My question is, which way are these supposed to be rotated? Are they "directional" (rotate front-to-back only) or "non-directional" (criss-cross rotation)?

The issue is, one of my tires was actually replaced in 7/2007 at about 38K miles, so I've been using a custom rotation scheme I developed to keep the older tire in the back where, I assume, it will wear more slowly, to try to level out the wear on the tires. But just now I was looking at the manual to see what the official recommendation was and I saw that it makes a distinction between directional and non-directional tires.

Of course my assumption that the rear tires wear more slowly may be completely wrong, in which case my plan is fundamentally flawed. Any thoughts on this?

In any case, I'm glad I finally found this forum. I appreciate the advice about replacing the PAXs with non-PAX alternatives. I guess I'll be getting non-PAX tires when my current set wears out.  

I have a 2006 nissan quest with 24000 miles and the tires with "the great  system" are bald... so i was quoted by the dealership the replacement fee instalation included of the 4 tires ...

i almost screem when the told me -4,000 dollars ...
I am so mad with nissan customer service and parts.

I am about to exchange this week all the rims and tires and that may will cost me between 1600 and 2200.
this way i wont have this problem any more.

This is totally a surprise for me ... if i had known this ifo and they had told me this issue...
I for sure had not buy the quest.

i have lost many hours searching for better deals on rims and tires and even i went to a yard to find them.

i wish there is some ...lawyer perhaps that  can take this case to court and refund the "problem tires" to all of us.
thanks
Lady on wheels



I  

Hello just wanted to let you know pax tires are NOT discontinued, they are now an OPTIONAL accessory.

Also pax tires can be repaired but only with a tire patch, the pax ring will have to be removed and new gel will have to be installed. If a tire plug is installed the ring can be damaged and fail. We charge 45 for the repair and 25 for the gel. Doesn't that sound more reasonable? I find it hard to believe how much some of these dealers are charging!  

Recently I too was faced with the same issues.  I had 11,000 miles on my 2007 Quest when the front tires started to go bald on the outer edges.  I took it to Browns Nissan Fairfax, VA and they told me that it was, "MY FAULT" for not rotating them at 7,500 miles and said the alignment was fine.  They rotated my tires and now with just over 14k the tires on the front are now going bald as well.  Despite my arguments with Nissan they would do nothing but replace my rims and tires for $750 for each rim/tire.  There was only 1 Honda dealer locally that was an authorized PAX dealer, but they wanted $350 a tire for a total of $1400 to replace all 4.  I decided to go with some 17x7 Voxx rims from Discount Tire Direct with some Michelin Hydroedge tires.  They Hydroedge are 90k tires so while the ride is quiet it's not noticeably more quiet than the PAX.  Gas mileage is up slightly to a tune of 1-2 mpg.  My alignment was indeed out.  The ride quality is stellar now. Much more controlled and responsive steering and road feel.  Traction is dramatically increased in both wet and dry conditions.  The PAX on my Quest were dangerous in the wet from day one and even on dry pavement when turning produced wheel spin unless easing into the turn very gently.  Total out the door was $1185 and a local shop installed all 4 tires for a whopping $14!  I could not be happier with this decision.  My time is too precious for me to spend countless hours speaking with Michelin and Nissan to only get partial satisfaction.  I would rather spend the additional time with my family. The tire/rim combo I chose only put my speedometer off by 1 mph.  

There is a class action against them.....

Betsy Ferling-Hitriz
Legal Action
Shephers Finkleman Miller & Shah,LLC
65 Main St.
Chester, CT 06412
860 526-1100
860 526-1120

"Betsy Ferling"  bferling@sfmslaw.com