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There is a Class Action Lawsuit pending.  I've included a link below for more information.  I contacted this law firm via email to be updated on further outcomes and got a prompt response.  My 06 Touring has 2 rear tires that were worn down at 9,474 miles and I was told at that time I would need to replace w/in 5,000 to 7,500 miles.  Was just told again yesterday by a service station (in to get a new battery) that my 2 rear tires would need to be changed soon--mileage is now 14,900.  I researched these "wonderful" tires and found this, which I'll be watching closely:

http://www.sfmslaw.com

just search their pending cases for American Honda Motor Company and Michelin North America, Inc.  Good luck to all you other PAX owners--this is very frustrating, to say the least.  

Do u have contact info so that I can get rid of this bloody PAX system tires.. I want to go with Conventional tire syste,..Would appreciate your response. thx  

I was away last week and my wife took cart in for 30K+ service. SHe was told all 4 tires were dangersouly low on thread (likely true) and all 4 tires needed to be replaced (alos, likely true).
THey charged her $922 for tires which included 828 tires and 93 for "gel"?
I have no issues with these charges.
HOwever the labor charge was $560 to replace and mount all 4 tires !!! and that does not include the $80 tire allignment charge.

Does this bor charge for mounting and balancing all 4 tires seem out of whack?
I woulk like to make an issue of this only if they are playing games. What should the labor charge for this be?

D  

It sounds like you have the least painfull solution.  Can you provide a few more details?  The take-offs were from an LX? used?  Can we buy new LX wheels?  Most dealers say no.

Your sensors and spare wheel came from the dealer?  

I am about to put my second set of PAX tires on my 50K mile 05 Odyssey Touring (we bought ours in 04, too). Those looking at other options can do so, but it is my understanding that the pressure sensors can be problematic and will likely have to be messed with at every maintenance check. Others will probably disagree. I have also been told by a tire dealer (who doesn't sell PAX) that Touring suspension may be tweaked for PAX. They have seen some, but don't like to work on them. I don't know. Seems that that would've made the car much more expensive to the EX than it was. I would bet that the EX has the same suspension. So, you can probably put other wheels and tires on the Touring without worry for handling and ride. Though, you will need to buy a $150 spare. Oh, you didn't realize that you don't have spare?   You should look. I'll bet you have the jack, but no spare tire. I don't care what kind tire you have, if you run over a nail or a screw, you will likely have a flat. Hope that doesn't happen on I-5 with your non-PAX tires and no spare.

If you are in the SF Bay Area, I have found a shop in Campbell that can change the tires and gel packs. They have the $40K (so I am told) machine and the training and the experience. Their quote was $1170 out of the door for all 4 wheels. The Honda dealer in my area has the expensive machine and their quote was ~$400 per wheel (all up) before disposal charges ($1600+ for all 4). Much better if you can find an independent shop.

West Valley Auto Tech
408 / 378-1281
(hope it is OK to pass this info)

Here is my dilemma. The PAX wheels are 460mm. They take 235mm wide tires, but the wheels are closer to 18 inches. So, you need 18 inch wheels to start. You will probably want alloys and then better tires. So, a descent (but, not spectacular) set of 18 inch wheels is about $1000. Then, a set of good tires is about $185 each with mounting and balancing ($740). So, that is about $1800, give or take. Not to mention the spare. Pretty much the same cost as getting new tires and gel packs from Honda. My thinking is I will replace the 2 PAX fronts as the rears still have a little life. Then, do the rears at the next service interval. I can spread the cost out a little and not have to worry about a flat. I will probably get rid of the car within the next couple of years anyway. If not, then I will have to decide what to do when I come to that bridge. Though, I can see the benefit of getting after-market wheels now and spending $750 in about 3 years, instead of $1100 again in 18-24 mos. I don't know, but I have to make a choice soon. The fronts are bald.

Honda should really be ashamed of their choice to collude with Michelin. Or, maybe they should be ashamed of not being more forthright. I am pretty disappointed. We have always relied on our Hondas. They have been the most reliable cars that we have ever owned. No American brand has come close for us. We haven't owned European cars. It didn't seem to make sense when Japanese cars are so good and seemed so much less expensive (maybe not so much these days). We just love our Hondas. Tires not withstanding.

If you need me to respond, please let me know. I may not check this forum often.  

Actually, this is my 3rd set of PAX tires. Two out of the first 4 tires were replaced under warranty and I ended paying for the other 2. We probably shouldn't have done that, but the car was only about 16 mos old and I still felt the glow of a new car. Like I said, it seems like $2K for wheels and tires not matter how you cut it. If you keep the car then after-market wheels and tires are probably smart, but if you aren't it is hard to justify the expense.  

what a great idea but what crappy product and support.probably wont be long before this product is discontinued and we would all be screwed.

just put 4 new 235 55 nexum tires and mdx chrome rims ($1200) on my 2005 oddy touring. looking for full size spare (my car has *** tire dealer warned me about tire load rating on 18" rims.

first set wore out at 24000 miles(edge wear). one tire and rim wacked this week with cost to replace  possibly exceeding $700 (tire $175 mount $90  with dealer rim, found cheaper wheel at junk yard but thought better of it).

this chat and common sense sold me on changing out the set. planning some trips this summer and after reading the other horror stories wouldnt dare leave town with this hanging over my family. will sell the 3 rims and tires (10000 miles no sensors)on ebay.

thank you all for saving me from future expense and headaches.  

I am on my third set of PAX tires with 64K miles on the 2005 Odyssey minivan.  Like a number of others, the seller told me that I had PAX and should be able to get 50-60K miles on it.  Little did he know.

What frustrates me is that I do not have a choice.  Honda has not given me the option of removing the tires.  Every 18 months, I spend $1200 on a new set of tires.  

In addition, I got a flat last summer.  We had the tire patched at a cost of $90.  Then, a month later, it happened again.  So, I replaced it at a cost of $289.

To put everything in perspective, I have a 2003 Explorer.  With 109K miles, I just put on my third set of tires.  The tires I have purchased for my Explorer combined cost less than 1 set of PAX tires.

I have looked at the 2008 Odysseys.  On the Touring model, one has the option of the PAX tires.  

My only beef with Honda is that I don't have a choice.  Either I buy the PAX tires or trade in the car.  Moreover, I either buy the tires at Honda or I don't get any tires at all.

The Odyssey is the most expensive car I have ever had in order to maintain it.  I'm on my third DVD player (the other two failed at 36K and 62K miles - thank Heavens for extended warranties).  The service is expensive and $1200 a pop for a set of tires gets old.

Assuming I keep the car for until I reach 150,000 miles, I will have spent ~$5000 on tires.  That is 3.3 cents per mile.  Most tires (good ones) cost about 1.2 cents per mile.  Therefore, the maintenance costs more than 2.5 times what a traditional set of tires costs.  As I stated, the Odyssey is an expensive car to maintain.

If there is a Honda salesman or manager reading this, I hope you are listening to your customers.  If you sell a car with PAX tires, tell the buyer the pros and cons of the tires.  Make sure the buyer knows (s)he has a choice.  All of us here on the forum feel like we were hoodwinked when we bought the car.  

I love my HONDA. I have been driving honda's since 1997. This is our 2nd Odyssey and it's an 05.  I thought WOW run flat tires, pretty cool! Well, I finally had to replace all 4 tires last year Jan. 2007.  It was excessive headache, b/c one east bay dealer didn't have the pax, and WC didn't want to transfer any of the product to the other dealers. OK, so we got about 44K miles w/ these run flat tires and dang it was expensive to replace for the first time.  My husband contacted Micheline tires and honored only 1 free tires, whatever ... it had to be change.  It's now 3/2008 got 13K miles less than the 1st tires.  I couldn't believe how CHEAP/EXPENSIVE these tires were.  My husband contacted Micheline Tires again, and complained about them, and they were able to honor 35% each tires, so it will cost my pocket under $1K, and will I will remove the run flat tires along w/ the rims next year. THEY ARE NOT WORTH A DIME!!!  All I want to say all people out there with RUN FLAT TIRES, they are not worth buying.  It will be absolete next year & will be gone for all top model vehicle.  Please DO NOT BUY THEM @ ALL!!  

I am due for a 3rd set of PAX tires (all 4 of them) soon.  I am considering trading my '05 Ody for a new 2008, either the EX-L or the Touring withOUT PAX.  I am told the dealer does not care about the condition of the vehicle, even the tires, as long as there is no damage to the body and the motor.  Dealer only looks at the blue book.  Heck, I see trading it in as a discount from paying for a set of 4 tires.  Theoretically, I am getting $2000 for my trade-in.  I know I can get more with a private sale.  But, damn, the tires are bald.  Any savvy buyer will see that.  I wouldn't mind passing that cost to the Honda's used car division.  

Has anyone consider this path?  

I bought a used 06 Odyssey with PAX tires and at the time, I thought I was getting a great feature (run-flats). Needless to say that I have done over 3 days of reading online message boards that only says horrible stories about them. The main disgruntle is the excessive cost and the lack of equipment for change-overs/replacements. I live in Canada and there is not a single centre that tackles PAX. Most tire centres I called have not even heard about them. I have called Honda and Michelin and they both seem oblivious to this concern. Again, as an OEM, they don't care about 10% dissatisfaction unless every PAX owner calls them and complains. I have called 2 tire shops in the Buffalo area and the current price for a PAX replacement is just under $1,200 (Tire-197, kit-44 + labor). It takes 1hr. to replace 1 tire and they only do it by appointment. So far, the closest replacement is 235x60x17, bolt pattern 5-120, offset 55mm. Pricing for these rims+tires+sensors would run close to 1,400 but that is only $200 more than PAX and worry free driving. For all those who are waiting for the class-action lawsuits, tough chance it will get through. Replace your PAX' now.  

HONDA ODYSSEY OWNERS LOOK HERE!!
Sadly, my story is similar but NOT the same.  I took my Odyssey Touring in for the 30k check and Honda told me that I had to replace two of the tires because they had warn down on the outside of the tires which meant that they were under-inflated.  Kind of hard to do when the car tells you the exact pressure in each tire!!  I called Honda in Calif. the next day and got a Case number for Honda to check out the system.  I took the car back in today and the Honda dealership retrieved a Service News Post from August 2006 (the mechanics use these to keep up with changes).  In this bulletin, it states that the PAX tire is "supposed to" wear on the outer sides, that is the design of the tire and they should NOT be replaced that they weren't worn down, the tread was still good on the center portion of the tire.  I am going to continue to complain to  Honda and to Michellin about the problem.  A $40k vehicle purchased from Honda should have the same quality parts as there are on the rest of the vehicle.

It may not be class action, but if enough of us get together and make a loud enough noise, I think we could be heard.    

Hello from Hawaii

My wife and I bought an 07 Honda Odyssey and like with so many others we didn't do the research and found that the pax system is not only hard to get here but very costly (bad on us, a military family).  Any way the reason I’m writing to you guys and gals is because I may have found the answer to the problem.... The 2008 Honda Odyssey came out with the opition to get the pax tire system or not.  Well here's the good part, the Odyssey is coming off the factory floor with pax, but at the dealer you have to ask for the Odyssey without the pax system, its a one time shot.  Good news for us is here is the part number 42700-SHJ-L91 disk (17X7J) (disk to Honda means wheel)... At the dealer you’re looking at $589 a rim not including all the other stuff.... you can compare the info on http://www.slhondaparts.com/.  This is a Honda parts store in CA.  Here you can get what you need to change over to no pax system.  My wife and I are waiting until we come back state side to change over as we only have a little over 11,000 miles on the tires, and a year left here in Hawaii.  If you have any questions or you would like to see the whole invoice from Honda Windward here in Hawaii here is my email address:  vianabk@msn.com.  I hope this helps!  

I have been reading about how several of you have converted your vehicles from the Pax runflat tire system to a conventional aftermarket wheel and tire combination. I understand your frustration with this sytem and how it is expensive to replace and the conversion to standard non-runflat tires is one solution to the cost of replacement. But I would like to express my concern with several people mentioning throwing a full size spare into the back of your vehicle without safely securing the wheel.
If you are involved in an accident this wheel assembly can potentially kill anyone in it's path. I hope if you have converted to a full size of temporary spare you have some means of safely securing the wheel to the van.
As to your coments how the local tire store repaired your Pax tire without removing the tire and saved you money.... The local tire did not prpoerly repair your tire and used a string plug which is meant only as a temporary fix until you can have a proper pach and insert repair. The string plug repair will eventually fail and can cause additional damage to your tire.  

could you please send me the specific info. on which 18" tires and wheels you purchased for your Odyssey? And approx. cost?


thanks very much.