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Class Action Lawsuit -- http://www.sfmslaw.com/pages/cases.php?id=343

Well same thing just happened to us...  2 years and 24000 miles -- dealer said that was about average and that the cost to replace each tire would be approx 280.   If I had known that we would have to kick in 1200 every 2 years I would never have bought this car (or would have taken the non-PAX tires version).  

Regardless, I contacted both Honda and Michelin.  Honda said that this wasn't their responsibility -- talk to Michelin.  Michelin noted that the tires should last approx 45k -- but noted that they don't warranty tire tread.  After researching came across the Class Action Lawsuit.  There is a PDF which mirrors what has been going on..  Here is some text from the lawsuit....

American Honda Motor Company, Inc. and Michelin North America, Inc.

Summary of Pending Case: On March 5, 2007, SFMS filed a Class Action Complaint in the United States District Court for the Central District of California against American Honda Motor Company, Inc. and Michelin North America, Inc., on behalf of Jean Carper, Michael Muhlfelder, and a class consisting of all persons or entities who purchased or leased, not for resale, an Acura or Honda vehicle equipped with the Michelin PAX® Tire and Wheel Assembly System. The Complaint alleges that Defendants intentionally misrepresent the benefits of the PAX system, the availability of repair facilities equipped to replace PAX system tires and the costs of replacing PAX system tires. The Complaint also alleges that Defendants fail to disclose to consumers the markedly shorter tread life of the PAX system tires.

There is an email address to the lawyers on the website noted...    

I am being told to replace 2 of my tires at 17,000 miles! I keep telling them that this isn't normal, and they keep pointing at each other. I bothered both companies enough, that now the Honda dealership says that the full cost of the 2 tires will be covered. They, however, won't tell me who is paying- they say it is not Honda or Michelin! I guess I bugged enough people that someone decided to pay just so I wouldn't keep calling?! At any rate... I keep asking what happens in another few months when I have to replace the other two tires, etc. No one has any answer or even suggestion. I am afraid to take this offer, because I am worried that if the class action filed comes through, that my actions will invalidate any possibility of the other 2 being covered! Anyone know the deal with this?
Thanks!  

I am in the process of trying to change out the tires and wheels on my Odyssey. I purchased the sensors from the dealer for $50 each only to find out we can not use the sensors on the after market rims. The stem is too short. The Les Schwab dealer is looking in to strapping the sensor on to the rim and using regular valve stems. He heard that this method was used in some of the Corvettes. I'm a little shocked that I wasn't warned that replacing these tires would cost me $600 each and I would be lucky to get 30,000 miles out of them. I don't think Hond knew what they were getting in to when they put these tires on their cars. If anyone has any questions or comments you can email me at baggervnce@aol.com.  

Bought 2006 Odyssey Touring as a Honda Certified Used Car from a dealer in Irving TX.  Approximately 31K miles when purchased.  The front tires were original (well worn), the rear tires were new.  After hydroplaning all over the highway during the first significant rainstorm, I decided to have the new tires rotated to the front.  (I later read and was told my Michelin that the better tires should go on the rear of the car to insure against loss of control of the rear end of the car)  

When the new (dealer installed) tires were rotated to the front of the car, the vibration around 60-65 mph was unbelieveable.  I took it into Discount Tire for balancing.  They said one of the front tires was normal and required only about .25 ounces on the inside of the wheel to balance.  The other (right) tire required 4.75 ounces on one side and 5.75 on the other.  Discount tire was adamant that this was an abnormal amount of weight and an indication that the tire or wheel, or both, were bad and needed to be replaced.  Discount Tire did not have the necessary PAX equipment to remove the tire or troubleshoot further.  Discount Tire said the tires were known for problems (true) and that Michellin was not making them any longer (apparently false).  

When I took this informaiton back to the Honda dealer, they said PAX tires can take more weight to balance.  They did not attempt to remove the tire to inspect the tire or wheel, presumably because of the labor involved.

I contacted Michelin customer service.  They said the tire was just inside specs but that, if I wanted it replaced, they would pay for half of the replacement (prorated for wear).  Not sure if this is labor or just the tire.  I'm reluctant to do anything now because at least the tire is balanced.  It seems that several on these posts have never resolved their issues completely.

Honda and/or Michelin need to take their lumps here, but neither seems willing to do so.  If there had been any forewarning of these problems I would have gladly bought an EX instead of Touring model.  

I'm just going thru the same pain, My Honda Leader was able to get 25% discount from Michelin, They sent some reports and pics of my tires and they accepted to give me 25% discount. my car has just 25K miles. The way to get the discount is calling the 1800 number that apprears on the owners manual and create a case with Michelin, then go to the honda dealer and they will fill some forms and take some pics and sent them to Michelin, Michelin will come back with an possible discount as answer.

Hope this help someone.

Im still undesided if I like to pay around $850 for all set of tires, Honda charge $40 per tire just for the installation (includes balance).  

:
Class Action Lawsuit -- http://www.sfmslaw.com/pages/cases.php?id=343

Well same thing just happened to us...  2 years and 24000 miles -- dealer said that was about average and that the cost to replace each tire would be approx 280.   If I had known that we would have to kick in 1200 every 2 years I would never have bought this car (or would have taken the non-PAX tires version).  

Regardless, I contacted both Honda and Michelin.  Honda said that this wasn't their responsibility -- talk to Michelin.  Michelin noted that the tires should last approx 45k -- but noted that they don't warranty tire tread.  After researching came across the Class Action Lawsuit.  There is a PDF which mirrors what has been going on..  Here is some text from the lawsuit....

American Honda Motor Company, Inc. and Michelin North America, Inc.

Summary of Pending Case: On March 5, 2007, SFMS filed a Class Action Complaint in the United States District Court for the Central District of California against American Honda Motor Company, Inc. and Michelin North America, Inc., on behalf of Jean Carper, Michael Muhlfelder, and a class consisting of all persons or entities who purchased or leased, not for resale, an Acura or Honda vehicle equipped with the Michelin PAX® Tire and Wheel Assembly System. The Complaint alleges that Defendants intentionally misrepresent the benefits of the PAX system, the availability of repair facilities equipped to replace PAX system tires and the costs of replacing PAX system tires. The Complaint also alleges that Defendants fail to disclose to consumers the markedly shorter tread life of the PAX system tires.

There is an email address to the lawyers on the website noted...  

JeffreyK
Thanks for the link. It seems that the class action suit above is aimed at "failure to disclose" and "false claims." But I think the PAX/Honda collaboration could also be a problem for them because of restriction of free trade (you must buy only those tires and they must be installed by a Honda dealer). But, hey, I'm a doc not a lawyer.

Art  

I am currently having the same problem, I also want to join the class action lawsuit and am having a problem with the fact that there was not full disclosure at the time of sale, that I am now stuck with these tires and the large *** it costs to change them every 20k miles, and what is even more frustrating is that Honda is the only one that can change them and i would like to travel but fear that if I am stuck, with 3 children, where there is not an authorized pax tech what do i do?????????  I posed this question to Michelin and they have said that they would put me up in a hotel and fly in the tires...which i find very hard to believe, or i should re-phrase I believe this would cost me selling my house  

I have contacted both Michelin and Honda again like most of you they will prorate only the cost of the tires but I will still end up paying over $900 I would like these tires swapped out for regular ones has anyone done this?

I am all for calling ABC news as well as my local news to make consumers aware of the cost, and all the problems from the beginning with sales to mis-information and the process and inconvenience and still getting nowhere, has anyone attemped this???

Please help...  

I have replaced all the PAX tires at 21000 mainly because Michelin helped on the cost.  I got four new ones out the door for $796.00.  I stayed with the original equipment because I did not want to risk voiding my warranty.
When these wear out then I will see if these issues have been resolved, if the PAX tires is more reasonibly priced and if more tire dealers are stocking them.  If not then I shall swap out of the PAX system or sell the van.

I had an Explorer when the Firestone firestorm took place.  After sometime Ford finally stepped in and replaced all Firestone tires free of charge.
I don't believe Honda and Michelin can just stand by and do little or nothing in this situation.  If they can't find it within themselves to offer another tire and rim system at no charge then at least make the offer at their cost.  

Forgive me for not reading the whole thread - Don't have time - too busy trying to get tire fixed. On purchasing my 2005 Honda Touring NO info relayed that I could not change my own tire, that replacements in my area were hit or miss, that the expense was incredible, that one could be stranded for days on country roads while waiting for replacements to come -the dangers associated with this system are far greater than any safety they pretend to offer. Honda and Micheline are liable. I am sitting here on Sunday in a metro area of 1.2 million people unable to use my car - looking forward to a week of negotiations to get a tire changed.

I say forgive me for not reading the whole thread because I would like someone who has read the thread to tell me if there is already a nascent class action suit. I want to join - if there is not, are there no lawyers here willing to start one? It's time for Honda to replace all these tires and wheels for free. One wonders why Honda and Michelin would want to tick off their most affluent customers - it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of the ripple effect in their reputations. I have had Hondas for over 20 years - next time Toyota for me. And as for Michelin, I would put a bicycle tire on my car before getting another one of theirs that I wasn't forced to purchase.  This scheme is the single most obvous attempt to monopolize my tire business that could be imagined - had I been given even the least of information by my local dealer or my leasing agent, I would never have considered this car. Again - anyone - is there a suit in progress?  My fear is that we are not a large enough class to benefit the lawyers - Is there any other recourse?  As of tomorrow I will start investigating replacement of all tires and wheels - and Honda had better NOT even think about trying to void my warranty. Folks - write the company - call them over and over - don't leave them alone - this is a travesty that is costing us a fortune in money and time and which is dangerous to our families (getting stranded in the countryside and unable to change a tire - this isn't Europe - it takes more than 50 to 100 miles to reach civilization in much of this county.  Need I go on?) -  

Art_L - Many thanks for info on class action - I will write to the lawyers handling the class action. Just paid $370, yes $370 per tire to replace THREE tires at 31,000 miles of them this morning. The quote was for over $1200 and came down after my wife complained, allegedly because the "rings" didn't need replacement. I'll bet they would have been replaced had she not gasped.

I have told the dealer I will contest the VISA charges as I sleep days and this was done while I was asleep - I would have changed all four tires and wheels and the *** with them (had I been able to find someone to do it). EVERYONE should fight back at every step. This is dangerous. It involves failure to disclose and restraint of trade. It involves the chance of your family being stranded on the road overnight after driving 150 miles hopelessly looking for someone to fix a tire then being towed 200 miles in the wrong direction and losing days of vacation if you haven't been killed on the side of the road. This is not a safety feature in the US. It is a very dangerous features.

Honda is burying its head in the sand as is Michelin. It is time for them to fix this problem - Rob51  

I also found out about this huge problem yesterday. I found a nail in the tire of my 05 Touring Odyssey. I took it to my local Honda dealer and was told the tire was repairable. AT A COST OF $102.00 Needless to say I was shocked. My dealer told me a normal tire repair cost is $24.00. Now I'm PO'd, so I call Michelin Customer Relations. I tell the guy isn't this covered under the Michelin Pax assurance plan. He says "no" your tire is repairable. I did not see that written anywhere, but the Customer relations guy tells me He sees it. he then tells me he will call the dealer and look into it!

Here is what Michelins website states;

A: Under the PAX System Assurance Plan, all road hazards are covered for the first two (2) years or 50% of treadlife. The tire and support ring will be replaced at no charge to the consumer. If there is damage to the wheel due to a traffic accident or vandalism, then the consumer will be responsible for purchasing the new wheel and, therefore, replace the full assembly. The Tire Pressure Monitoring System is not covered under the PAX System Assurance Plan and is subject to the conditions specified in the vehicle warranty.

A: Michelin cannot set prices in the marketplace for this, however, we have completed a study that outlines that the complete service, flat repair, and rebalance, averages between $35.00 and $45.00, depending on market area.
A: A replacement PAX System tire retails for approximately 10% to 15% more than the price of the comparable traditional Michelin tire.


After reading this would you think you would have to pay this;

   1. repair tire= $102.00
   2. replace a tire= $260.00 per tire!
   

Also the only other car in the United States that comes standard with these Michelin tires is the Rolls Royce Phantom MSRP $333000-$385000.
Why would Honda put these tires on a family minivan!!!!!!

Honda needs to fix this problem asap or I'm trading this van in on a Toyota Sienna, and I'll be done with Honda!!!!!!!

I also called Honda and they told me to be patient. We'll I'm not going to be patient. This is a bunch of crap!  

We are also having the same issue on our '06 Touring with <30k miles.  We were told it would be $700 to replace with same old PAX tires (We got a 35% discount by calling and complaing to Michelin.  They said the tires should be lasting 45k miles, so we were prorated based on our wear vs their expected wear).  

To replace the whole system with regular wheels/tires - about $1200 at Discount Tire (they were cheaper than a Honda service center).  Lets see...$700 now + $1200 in 1.2 years, or $1200 now and considerably less for just tires in another 40-50K miles?  I'm liking the latter scenario.  

I have contacted the law firm handling the lawsuit and have provided our information.  We are going to call and file a formal complaint with Honda.  Our Honda friend (a mechanic) said to do that regardless of whether or not we replace them with new wheels.  He said that we might be surprised at what Honda would do (not sure about them helping us replace the whole system).  I think we will at least tell Honda that we were suckered into feeling safe and we were lied to by the dealer about the life of the tires.  We will also tell them that we are going to replace the whole set of wheels and are telling all our friends NOT to buy a Honda Touring with those wheels.  Unfortunately, we can't afford to wait and see what happens with the lawsuit...we NEED new tires NOW.  I'm not risking my family's safety.

So, for those going PAX-free, what are you replacing with?  I haven't seen a whole lot of selection for 17x8, 5-120.  Discount tire recommended TSW Estorils ($158 ea).  They don't do a lot for me...Any other suggestions?  

We filed our complaint with American Honda Motor company this afternoon.  I swear, it's all in who you talk to.  Apparently the service rep didn't know anything about the PAX tires, or the pending lawsuit.  I really find that hard to believe.  We basically told the guy that we paid $40k for this vehicle and expected to get more the 1.5 years out of the tires.  We also said that we weren't expecting to spend $1200+ every year on just tire maintenance. We told him we were at a decision point to 1) replace with another PAX set or 2) replace the whole system.  He asked what we wanted Honda to do, and we said modify the vehicle for EX wheels.  Anyway, we filed our complaint and got a case number.  Our case is being referred to a regional service rep.  The number to American Honda Customer Relations is:  (800) 999-1009.  I encourage ALL of you to call.  Get in Honda's face.  I think that is the only way we are going to get Honda to own up to this issue.

If you want to go with another PAX set (how brave), call Michelin and get a case number from them.  Then, go to your nearest PAX dealer and get them to check the tire tred.  They can call Michelin and get you a discount prorated based on the wear.

Good luck!  

Hey guys I'm in market for a new van. Today i checked out Honda Odyssey, really liked the Touring version.

But after reading all th "HORROR STORIES" on this forum I think I will go for Sienna. Thanks a lot guys for saving me from the stupid PAX system.

I hope u kick Honda and Michelin's ass for causing so much pain.

I have one question though... did anyone think of changing the wheel/tire assembly?? Dont worry about putting the sensors... all u will have is an error. Do u think it will cause major difference in the car operation ??

And if u do have to use the sensors then how about using the wheel/tire assembly from EX-L model, they use Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) too, the only difference is they do not have Location and Pressure Indicators. Dont u think this might work with Touring's computer system since its their equipment ( I mean EX-L model's computer system read it too...right? ).

Its just a suggestion though, but I would love to hear ur reply.

Rc  

If the dealer told me that the tires would cost $1200 to replace, I would have reconsidered buying this vehicle.  My front tires wore out around 35,000 miles, under warranty mileage and the Honda dealership said there was nothing they could do. I've never had a vehicle go bald so quickly. I initially went to Costco and then to another tire dealership and no one can replace them in my area, but Honda.  One dealership said they had an Honda Touring sitting in their parking lot for a week trying to make them a spare tire just to get them to the dealership for replacement.  How absolutely frustrating.  My tires shake too.  I don't know what to do.  If there is a class action or something specifically I should be doing please let me know. Nanook4389@aol.com I just happened to google PAX tires and came across this board.  I see I'm not alone.  I feel for all of you. Take Care.