Automotive Forums

Superd18:
FYI: I just replaced my PAX tires. After talking with Honda customer service and having them tell me that this was a bad idea I decided to just do it. I called several places and had them tell me that they were unable to give me replacements due to legal issues. Namely, Honda warned them to quit selling replacements. I thought this was just wrong and I was having trouble finding good information so I decided to let anyone know, who will listen, just how easy it was. Well easy except for the cost. I went to TireRack.com and ordered rims and tires for a Odyssey LX. My year model is 2005 but this applies to any year model. The LX has the same size tires as the Touring tires but not PAX therefore they will fit. I ordered d16X7" rims with a 5X120mm bolt pattern. I bought the Rial Flair rims and 235/65TR-16 Michelin Energy LX4 tires. I had them delivered unmounted so that I could remove the tire pressure monitors from the old wheels. I used a reciprocating saw and cut the tires near the stem. I did this because none of the regular tire machines could remove the tire to get to these. It took about 15Mins to get them out. Then I brought the new tires, rims and monitors to a tire shop and had them installed on my van. This fixed the PAX tire problem. The monitors work fine and it cost me right at $1400. Now I can buy regular tires next time and anyone can do the work. I hope this helps anyone in need.

We are considering replacing our rims and tires on our 2006 Odyssey Touring.  My concerns are 1- Replacing the tires will void whatever warranty is left, and 2- I wonder whether the VSA will work correctly and whether the car will handle well in general and when the need arises (road water, ice, etc).  I would be interested to know whether you explored these issues and if you have encountered any problems.  I have 45,000 miles and am getting ready for my 3 set of tires!!!  

Hello,
I am in the final stage of switching my PAX on a 2005 Odyssey. I am replacing with a Acura MDX 18" wheel OEM stock based upon a post from this forum. My final need is to decide which lug nut to use since I am think that the PAX lugs are not compatible. Which lugs did you use for your conversion? Thanks,  

Hello, which lug nuts did you use size/depth style for the MDX tires?  

geethree176:
I called Tire Rack and talked to Gavin.  He said they can't recommend a wheel and tire combination because Honda told them nothing else fits the Touring Odyssey or works correctly with the suspension, TPMS, hubs, speedometer calibration, clearances, etc. etc. (Job security?)

But if you got your wheels and tires from Tire Rack and they worked fine, it must, indeed, be possible and a lot of people will be interested.  

I need to know what brand wheel and model you ordered.  Looking at the website, I chose the 17x7.5 Rial Porto Bright Satin Sil Paint ($151.00 ea.) along with Kumho 235/60HR17 tires ($88.00) ea.  I know you bought the 16" size, but maybe you could tell me the brand anyway and if you had any trouble with fitting onto your hubs. Don't need TPMS . . I have a tire gage.

Just a quick FYI:  
You should really reconsider reusing your TPMS sensors from your original PAX rims.  According to my research, The TPMS affects the operation of the VSA.  If the TMPS sensors are not found, or malfunctioning, the VSA operation will be affected (Some threads say the only effect is that you cannot turn it off, others say it will simply stop working...).  

*"My concerns are 1- Replacing the tires will void whatever warranty is left, and 2- I wonder whether the VSA will work correctly and whether the car will handle well in general and when the need arises (road water, ice, etc).  I would be interested to know whether you explored these issues and if you have encountered any problems.  I have 45,000 miles and am getting ready for my 3 set of tires!!! "*


I asked this question at the same dealership where I purchased my van.  The answer was:
  "wheels and tires are not covered by your warranty, therefore, changing your wheels and tires, as long as it is not a change that will cause the new tires to rub on the wheel well, or stick out of the wheel well, is an acceptable customization and does not constitute grounds for voiding your warranty."

As for the VSA, I have yet to read a single post that states that it will continue to work correctly* without the TPMS sensors in place. (*correctly, as in "continue to work in it's intended way.)

-m  

Here is a recent update on the lawsuit I found:

On May 21, 2008, Plaintiffs filed a Consolidated Amended Complaint in the Federal Court Action. Plaintiffs allege, inter alia , that Michelin has breached its written warranty by supplying the PAX System in a condition which does not meet the warranty obligations undertaken by Michelin, and by failing to repair or replace the defect and/or defective parts, including the tires, inherent in the PAX Systems. Plaintiffs also bring claims against Honda and Michelin under certain State laws, including, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin. The claims under the various State laws include, inter alia, claims for breach of express and implied warranty and violation of various consumer fraud statutes.
At the status conference on April 21, 2008, a briefing schedule was set by the Court for Defendants' Motion to Dismiss. A hearing on Defendants' Motion will occur in September 2008. In the California State Action, Plaintiffs filed their Motion for Class Certification on May 30, 2008.

I found the above on a website. I'm about 5,000 miles away from needing tires and have been driving another car just not to wear the tires.  I don't mind buying tires, and 35,000 miles is a little early, but I would hope Honda of America would start a wheel exchange program with the same style wheel that would accept a non-Pax tire. This would save both parties a bunch of wasted time and money, including Honda of America who I have respected since 1977 when I bought my first Accord.

The last thing I need is a Honda Odyssey looking like it spent a day at "PIMP MY ODYSSEY" with a set of oddball looking wheels. Come on, step up. It's bad enough you ruined the cup holder and removed the coin holder on the newer Odyssey.

Does anyone at Honda of America read this? If Mr. Honda were still alive he would make this right. He knew it would be the HONORABLE thing to do. He felt engineering was more important than litigation and would not be happy about this mess nor would he allowed this ever to happen or continue. Read his book, "Honda, the American Success Story". It's very good reading.

Does anyone know how many Odysseys were sold with the PAX system?  

I have a '06 Honda Touring with PAX tires.  I have 48k miles and am being told that it is time to replace.  I would like to convert to conventional wheels/tires and have been told by Discount Tires here in Dallas, TX. that they can do it using Beyern wheels and Goodyear Eagle tires.  Does anyone have experience with this combination on the '06?
Thanks, Rani  

I have a 2007 Odessey purchased at Honda of Danbury.  I am planning to buy alloy rims, which are not standard on the LX.  Please advise if I can use 2003 Odessey alloy rims on my 2007 LW.

Also, does the 2007 Odessey have PAX rims or did the 2003 Odyssey have PAX rims?  

Please add me to the list of people who are going forward with a class-action suit against Honda/Michelin.  I was never told how expensive my tires would be when I bought my van in June 2008.  When I inquired about getting an extra tire to keep, just incase, I was told a tire would cost approx. $100.  Now at 20K miles, bald front tires, and difficulty in turning, I am told I need to replace my front tires at  approx $600, and if I want to change them to reg tires it will cost me approx $2400 for tires and wheels.  

I live in Green Brook and have the Odyssey Touring with PAX tires and keep have leaking problems. The dealer fixes and cost me ove $100.00 per tire to fix. Looking to get "new" tires but don't think I want PAX. How have your after market tires worked out? Any impact on the VSA system??? Please send email  moranjohn@optonline.net  

Just wanted to let everyone know.  I have a 2005 Touring and I replaced the wheels
with the EX model wheels.  I bought a package from http://hondapartswarehouse.com/
look under hot deals and that is where I found the info.  They do have a package
deal.  The biggest problem I had was finding the spare tire itself.  I had to get
that from another dealer and was surprised at the cost.  

Total cost for everything including the spare was about 1100 once I factored
shipping.  Then I did have to get tires and they were 550 installed Total price
of about 1600.  But next time I'll only have to pay 550.

Granted I've only had everything installed for about a day but so far so good.  TPMS
works, tires work great.  

Thought I would chime in to provide some partial good news to the thousands of angry PAX buyers.

I had to replace all 4 tires at the 16,368 point ... hard to tell how long I had been running on absolutely bald tires ... never bothered to look since I have never had a tire wear thin in less than 30-35,000 miles.

After shelling out $1,800 to replace the tires, Gel pack, and cover installation/labor, I confronted the dealer.  Admirable gentleman, but clearly not in the mood to take accountability for what amounts to a design flaw by either Michelin or Honda (or both) ... he suggested I reach out to both.

Michelin acted quite surprised (feel free to call 864-458-6650 Shirley) when I spoke with them and after a few minutes of "hammering", I convinced Shirley to find someone who was empowered to reimburse me for my costs.  Next day she called back and offered half of the replacement cost of the tires ... and shipped me a check for approximately $450 immediately.

Now, it appears that Honda has gotten some inkling that the design flaw is aggravating its buyers ... the 2008 version offers the choice of PAX or no-PAX (regular 17" Michelins).  

I am waiting for a call back from the regional case manager covering NY to try to talk me off the ledge:  I have made it clear that I want one of the following:

a) reimburse the remainder of the fee and guarantee a forward reimbursement 15,000 miles from now (conveniently at the end of the lease period)
b) reimburse me and take my Touring addition back now ... I'll get a new Touring addition tomorrow without the PAX

I am very interested in the outcome of the lawsuit and am prepared to join ... Michelin claims that the average life of the PAX tire for Honda owners across the country is 40,000.  Incredible statistics if we believe that all of us are statistical outliers, more than 2 confidence intervals away from the mean!!  Seems a bit outlandish to me.

I'll repost once I speak with Honda.  

Your assertion that Michelin has dropped the PAX tires is incorrect.  Not only do they stand behind the tires (contrary to what may have been written in the NY Times a few months ago), the new Honda Odyssey Touring Edition 2008 provides the consumer with a choice ... Pax | no-PAX.

We are ready to trade ours in for a new one and enjoy the spare tire again!!  

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I am looking into what we will do when it's time to replace again.  We replaced last AUGUST...it's now June....the package that's being sold on the honda parts warehouse does not include the tires.  How much have you all had to pay for the actual tires that are used with this package?