Automotive Forums

On my 2nd set of PAX Tires @ 52,600 on my O5 Odyssey Touring, the Escondido Honda Dealer in San Diego now tells me I need 2 new Tires each @ 3/32. I have religiously rotated the tires every 5K. The second set has only given me 20,000 miles, 1st set I got 31,000 miles. Is there still a "lawsuit pending"?? $1280 for 4 new tires is the quote I received. I would never buy a Honda Odyssey Touring again with PAX Tires, and wouldn't have had I known all the problems and cost associated with them. $1280-$1300 every yr and a half to 2 yrs is highway robbery. Interesting that the 08 Odyssey Touring Model now comes with a choice of PAX vs. Standard Tires. So......I guess Honda/Michelin are leaving the 05-07 Odyssey Touring Pax Tire Customers out in the rain??? Surely the minimum they can do is "prorate these tires". Its not like Honda/Michelin is losing money over this. They are making hand over fist each and everytime a customer comes to the dealership and requests new tires since you can't buy these/repair these elsewhere unless your lucky enough to find a Tire Shop that has the equipment to work on them.  

sunset:
I have 27,000 miles on my touring and I was told at aprox 15,000 they should be replaced soon.  The following oil change I asked the dealership to look at them closely and they stated they were fine.  The following oil change they stated I needed the front two replaced soon. They are having a hard time telling me when they need changing... I am afraid to take my car on a long trip because I would hate to get stranded in a town that cannot change my tires or get in an accident because of the tires.  I am not interested in buying tires every 27,000 miles.  I think this is terrible.  I was told by the dealership that these would last much longer when I purchased the car. It makes me so angry.  I trusted the dealership, michelin and honda to build and sell an excellent vehicle....including tires.  What to do?

pjcesq:
I am looking for contacts in New Jersey regarding Honda/Michelin/Pax tire problems.  Please get in touch if you have had problems.  I replaced the tires and wheels with aftermarket (Ronal) wheels and a regular set of tires.  I bought the air pressure sensors from Honda and these were installed in my new wheels.  So far, so good.  

If you live in NJ and have had problems, I'd like to hear from you.

I live in NJ and had the same problem.  Back in late 2006 my Front tires woreout early (@ 23,000 miles) and dealership told me they were over $800 to purchase and install on 2005 Honda Odyssey Touring. After doing some investigation with other tire alternatives Tire Rack, STS, Goodyear.  I was told that the Michelin Pax Run Flat tire was made specifically for the Odyssey Touring and that the RIMS were and odd size which no other tire manufacturers tire would fit.  Also, the PAX system required a special machine to install the PAX gel system into the tire which only certian Honda dealerships were approved to use.  So basically I could only ger replacement tires from Clinton Honda and they charged $250 for the tire and $95 to install the PAX gel system into the tire.  With additional cost for rotation, tire disposal and tax I was at $800.  So a service rep. at Clinton Honda told me there was a big BLOG about it and that I should call a Honda Customer Representative to complain and see what they could do to help.  Thank God he was honest and ethical because after much complaining I was able to get the two fron tire for about $450.  I thought right away about contacting an attorney who handled class action lawsuits because this appeared to be illegal. I changed my mind, but now I see that someone else has filed a class action and I kick myself.  I  missed out on a potential $500,000 to $1,000,000 payday which most initial class action complainants get up to 5% of settlement.  I can't wait till this lease ends.  

Hello from Hawaii

My wife and I bought an 07 Honda Odyssey and like with so many others we didn't do the research and found that the pax system is not only hard to get here but very costly (bad on us, a military family).  Any way the reason I’m writing to you guys and gals is because I may have found the answer to the problem.... The 2008 Honda Odyssey came out with the opition to get the pax tire system or not.  Well here's the good part, the Odyssey is coming off the factory floor with pax, but at the dealer you have to ask for the Odyssey without the pax system, its a one time shot.  Good news for us is here is the part number 42700-SHJ-L91 disk (17X7J) (disk to Honda means wheel)... At the dealer you’re looking at $589 a rim not including all the other stuff.... you can compare the info on http://www.slhondaparts.com/.  This is a Honda parts store in CA.  Here you can get what you need to change over to no pax system.  My wife and I are waiting until we come back state side to change over as we only have a little over 11,000 miles on the tires, and a year left here in Hawaii.  If you have any questions or you would like to see the whole invoice from Honda Windward here in Hawaii here is my email address:  vianabk@msn.com.  I hope this helps!  

I recently took my Odyssey in for a wheel alignment. This was to necessitate the fact that I was again seeing premature wear on the tires less that 10k and I was going on vacation. My mechanic questioned whether or not I should have it done; I insisted.   I mentioned the tires seem to wear out faster when a heavy load like luggage is placed in the car.

He came out later to take me back to the alignment Rack to show me that I was right. The Odyssey tires run like the old 1960’s VW Beatle rear suspension they rotate from outside wall to inside wall as the suspension goes up and down with each bump of the road. Just by putting your weight on the bumper and pushing down you take it out of alignment. Therefore the PAX tire is never maintaining a flat surface with the road. So if you load up to that 3000lb limit the Odyssey claims is its max you will be riding on the inside camber of the tire. PAX tire have a problem with that in that they will wear badly on the outside tread of the tire due to stiff side walls. The combination of the two, Camber rotational suspension and stiff side walls causes the premature wear on the side walls. Once again (Odyssey + PAX tires = inferior results) due to the engineering of the two negatives together. If you look at other cars going down the road you can see that Honda is not the only one to use a Camber rotational rear suspension. It probly saves some weight or something. Therefore Michelin probly needs to rethink there tread design.  

Great information,thanks. I live in the Florida Keys. Where can I go to have those tires? Does Town Fair Tire know of other places and or does the tire company have a list of places that buy their tires. Is there a web site? Where did you put the spare tire? My e-mail is Joankeys@aol.com  

I've decided to convert my '05 touring to regular tires. Has anyone converted to regular tires in the San Diego area and can recommend a shop to order the rims and do the labor for a reasonable price? Thanks.  

JKramer

Just wondering how those wheels and tires have worked out for you.  

FYI: I just replaced my PAX tires. After talking with Honda customer service and having them tell me that this was a bad idea I decided to just do it. I called several places and had them tell me that they were unable to give me replacements due to legal issues. Namely, Honda warned them to quit selling replacements. I thought this was just wrong and I was having trouble finding good information so I decided to let anyone know, who will listen, just how easy it was. Well easy except for the cost. I went to TireRack.com and ordered rims and tires for a Odyssey LX. My year model is 2005 but this applies to any year model. The LX has the same size tires as the Touring tires but not PAX therefore they will fit. I ordered d16X7" rims with a 5X120mm bolt pattern. I bought the Rial Flair rims and 235/65TR-16 Michelin Energy LX4 tires. I had them delivered unmounted so that I could remove the tire pressure monitors from the old wheels. I used a reciprocating saw and cut the tires near the stem. I did this because none of the regular tire machines could remove the tire to get to these. It took about 15Mins to get them out. Then I brought the new tires, rims and monitors to a tire shop and had them installed on my van. This fixed the PAX tire problem. The monitors work fine and it cost me right at $1400. Now I can buy regular tires next time and anyone can do the work. I hope this helps anyone in need.  

My back two PAX tires were replaced less than a year ago.  Rotated twice (even aligned)and with only 11,000 miles lost over half of their life (5/32).  According to Honda -- brand new is 10/32 and 2/32 is must be replaced.  I have already spoken to Michelin (they discounted the last two tires).  I complained to them that 11,000 mile is poor and that by all accounts the tires are defective.  They were willing to discount a new set of PAX tires -- but I don't want to replace my tires every year.  

I decided to REPLACE the tires with Non-PAX standard 16 inch Michelin Tires and new honda rims.  My dealership was willing to make the change and actually took the old TPMS and put it on the new tires.  Supposedly I am the fourth car that they have changed.

THE DIFFERENCE IS NOTICEABLE.  Car handles better -- no vibration in the steering wheel, quieter ride, don't feel bumps in the road, better handling -- will let you know on gas mileage (as PAX tires weigh approx 75 pounds each). The TPMS does work -- no error messages and I am very happy with the results (except for the cost).

Only negative -- had difficulty finding a donut tire/spare -- ended up having to get a brand new spare approx 160. Please note there is a place for the spare in the rear of the van on drivers side.  

I live in Northern NJ.  As far as the lease goes -- I think you are stuck.  I believe that you have to return the car with the PAX Tires and in good condition (otherwise they might charge you).  It was smart to contact Honda.  In addition - you should follow up with Michelin.  In some cases -- I have heard that Michelin will discount their tires even up to 65% off.  Honda is still acting like their is no issue.  In regards to the class action lawsuit -- there is a law firm heading it up in NJ.  Good Luck -- hopefully -- when your lease is up you can get a better Odyssey.

 One good point in the News -- Michelin is no longer going to offer PAX Tires. They will support it for current owners, but feel there isn't a market for it.  

I am also in NJ and have had 2 pairs of tires wear out early on my 2005 Honda Odyssey Touring.  

I am interseted in how I can get out of this PAX system noose and would appreciate information on NJ shops that will do a conversion and the costs associated with such a conversion.  

My "story":  The first pair of tires were replaced at 22,000 exactly 2years and 1 week after we purchased the car.  That time Michelin chipped in 60% of the cost of the tire, as "goodwill".  I paid the full labor costs and I was told that the other pair on the vehicle would need to be replaced in 6 mos to a year.  Well, now one year and 12,000 miles later all 4 of my tires are bald!  Yes, all 4.  The original 2 AND the 2 I just put on last year.  After arguing with the dealership, they called Michelin and got Michelin to pay for 50% of the 2 new tires since they say I got 50% of the life of the tires.  My honda dealership gave me $100 off the labor costs which is equivalent to 1 tire, but they want me to pay for 4 brand new gel pack at $25 a pop and to cover that 2nd new tire's labor costs.  And the dealership wants me to sign a waiver relieving all parties of further responsibility on this issue, because that's the only way Michelin will pay them.  I refused to sign it last night.  So now I'm left with the choice of signing it and not having any further recourse or not signing it, paying the full cost of the repairs and fighting with Honda and Michelin for who knows how long.  

I think this whole thing is nonsense.  It was certainly NOT made clear to us when we purchased the vehicle that we'd be doing tire replacements costing $1500 every 20K miles.  If it had, we would have have stuck to our guns and gotten the EX-L model instead of the Touring that the dealership offered to us because they lied to us about the availability of the EX-L we wanted.  We didn't need the Touring edition and we certainly don't need this headache.  

If you are leasing you are stuck.  Otherwise -- try different Honda Dealerships for Non-Pax Tires. You will need new 16 inch rims and tires.  They will be able to take your existing TPMS and move it into these new standard Energy Michelin Tires.  Cost is going to be high without Michelin helping -- expect approx 1600 dollars.  Again it may be less if you can convince Michelin to help.  Don't forget you will need a spare -- even used I got prices of approx 170.  If you are planning on keeping the Odyssey -- it may be worth it to make this investment.  If you are in the Denville area -- there is a Honda Dealership that may assist you on the change.  

We purchased a 2006 Honda Odyssey Touring Van with PAX tires.... We weren't told at the time of purchase all about the tires and the small mileage rate, etc... and the COST of replacement!!  And the VERY FEW businesses that can change the PAX system because of the machine they have to have!  Count us in as really disturbed by what we are reading and hearing!  

I called Tire Rack and talked to Gavin.  He said they can't recommend a wheel and tire combination because Honda told them nothing else fits the Touring Odyssey or works correctly with the suspension, TPMS, hubs, speedometer calibration, clearances, etc. etc. (Job security?)

But if you got your wheels and tires from Tire Rack and they worked fine, it must, indeed, be possible and a lot of people will be interested.  

I need to know what brand wheel and model you ordered.  Looking at the website, I chose the 17x7.5 Rial Porto Bright Satin Sil Paint ($151.00 ea.) along with Kumho 235/60HR17 tires ($88.00) ea.  I know you bought the 16" size, but maybe you could tell me the brand anyway and if you had any trouble with fitting onto your hubs. Don't need TPMS . . I have a tire gage.  

I HAVE 4 PAX RIMS WITH SENSORS, TIRES ARE WORN BUT RIMS AND SENSORS ARE GOOD. ASKING $200 FOR ALL FOUR RIMS WITH SENSORS.  LIVE IN FLA.  WILL MEET IF NEAR BY FOR PICK UP OR CAN SHIP.   I JUST CHANGED OUT RIMS WITH 4 BRIDGESTONE TIRES FOR 945.00  GREAT DEAL.