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Hello,
I am preparing to do the pax change out on my 2006 touring and am trying to gather as much information as possible. Is changing the wheels and pressure monitors all that is required or are there other things i'm just not reading about? any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.  

Well, we are another "happy" 2006 EX Touring owner. We had two tires replaced under warranty at 15K, now at 43K all need to be replaced. The dealer in Ann Arbor quoted a price of $1200! $1200 for a minivan and the damn tires are loud, lousy on snow and ice and the wheels cannot be fitted with winter tires. Honda USA has told me "too bad" and blamed Michelin. I gently reminded the customer service rep that it was a HONDA engineering team that specified and approved this wheel/tire combination and if it was such a great concept why was it removed as a standard item on the Touring model. Honda states that a change out to a non PAX system is a safety hazard. I would argue that the inability of the PAX tire to perform on snow and ice is a safety hazard. Further, HONDA has placed their own customers in risk by selling a vehicle that cannot be fitted with winter tires. Think of the risk Odyssey Touring owners are taking trying to eek out a few more miles from these tires to avoid a $1200 replacement charge. How many owners have hydroplaned or slid into an accident? have  This PAX fiasco smells greatly of the Explorer/Firestone problem of a few years ago. Last but not least, the resale value of one of these vehicles will be adversely affected. What used car dealer in his right mind would buy one of these at auction if they knew they were looking at dropping $1200 into the vehicle to make it saleable. Honda, if you are listening, YOU HAVE LOST FACE, it is time to do the right thing and offer a replacement tire/wheel combination at a price similar to the replacement fee for a set of conventional tires. At this point, trading our Honda in on a domestic is beginning to look attractive from a financial and patriotic standpoint.  

Forget about help from Honda. The rep on the phone said the PAX is a safety issue to prevent rollovers, so that we would not suffer from a "blowout". She was not aware of any suspension design changes from 2006 to the later years but still would not approve a replacement wheel/tire combination. These things are overpriced pieces of crap. In this time of economic uncertainty rather than admit a value engineering design flaw Honda would rather lose an existing customer. Whatever happened to the old phrase, "You dance with who brung you"?  

Hi:

I've been shopping for a 2008 Odyssey Touring model. I've only found one that did not have PAX. I have learned from my Honda Dealer Service Department that regular wheels and tires can be used with this system, but if a tire pressure monitor is not installed on the new wheels, the pressure monitor will not work (no big deal). New Honda EX wheels cost about $400 each from the dealer, but used, refinished Honda Ex wheels are available from tire dealers for about $200 each, plus pressure monitors.

One Honda dealer said that the Stability Control system would not work properly without PAX wheels. My dealer says they have several customers ho have made the switch and there is no effect on this system. (I believe my dealer).

I was also told that PAX tires are 80,000 mile tires, but I have not seen a set that look very good after only 30,000 miles.

In my opinion, there should be a Class Action Suit against Honda for marketing such a poor, EXPENSIVE system without an alternative being offered. The PAX was manditory on Touring models in 2005, 2006 & 2007.

Good Luck!  

I have switched my tires out to regular tires as of a few weeks ago. The only "problem" I have to deal with now is that my check TPMS light comes on, which is really no big deal, considering I had 3 flats in a matter of a 9 month span and the last one left me and my family stranded. The tire shp said if it's really too annoying, I can have them pull the fuse to that particular light in the dash. I hated these tires and everything about them was just way over-rated. I now am the proud owner of 100,000 mile tires and the ride is so much smoother with my new tires. My Honda dealer said the swap will not affect my warranty in any way except for of course if the tire shop I took it to messed anything up so I made sure they warrantied their work. I highly recommend the swap. I took it to a northern IL tire shop and ordered new rims from Honda and my overall cost for the swap was $900.00. I feel so much more confident about driving now. We have horrible winters here and Spring brings out the ginormous potholes. Every time I hit a pothole, my stress level spiked along with the feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach holding my breath, waiting for that stupid light to come on and tell me to check my tire pressure. Hallelujah, those days are gone!  

De-pax-ed: – A Honda Odyssey that has the Pax System tires replaced with conventional tires.

OK so I am now free of the tyranny of the Honda/Michelin Pax tire fiasco.   After looking for information on depaxing and only finding bits and pieces, miss-information, and hearsay I decided that I could do it and publish some accurate information for others who may be looking to do the same thing.  So here goes…

First the standard disclaimer:  If you decide to de-pax based on this information herein you do so at your own risk.   The replacement wheels and tires that you pick will not be exactly the same in size and weight as the OEM Pax tires and therefore the suspension and handling may vary from the OEM design target. I do not guarantee any information herein although I have attempted to make it as accurate as possible.

2006 Odyssey OEM Pax Wheel and Tire Size: 235-710R 460A 104T.  This translates into: Wheel Size: 18.1” diameter  Tire Size: 235mm width, 27.95” Tire Diameter, and sidewall height of 4.9”.  Translated into P metric sizes it would be a 235/53 R18.1 Tire.  

Looking over the Honda 2006 and 2008 Odyssey Glossy pamphlets that I have:  The Stabilizer bars are 24mm for non-Pax Vehicles and 25mm for Pax Vehicles.  Only a 1mm difference!  This would result in only a slightly stiffer torsion bar.  From the pamphlets see that a 235/60R17 102T is the tire package offered for a 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring NON-Pax vehicle.   So it seems that a 235/60R17 tire and wheel package would be safe as an installation option.  Another option is a 235/65 R16 103T Wheel and Tire option.  This is the standard tire size for Non-Touring Odyssey 2006 and 2008 models.

Next I back engineered data to see if there were any differences between the 2006 to 2009 Honda Odyssey wheels and tires.   I went to my favorite source; www.tirerack.com and plugged in the model years of 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 for Honda Odyssey non-pax vehicles.   The tire wheel packages were the same for each of the years showing that the mounting dimensions, clearances, wheel lugs were the same.  Tire rack preselects only wheel/tire packages that will exactly fit your vehicle so the chance for problems are very small.   One of the parameters they consider is Wheel Offset (distance from the axle mounting surface to center of the wheel). Just choose any one of the Odyssey non-pax vehicles when selecting the wheel/tire set for your vehicle, example LX, EX, or Touring Non-pax.

I first looked at using 18” wheels (to most closely match the Pax system wheels) but I found only 1 tire choice that was offered for this wheel size! Not good! Tire Rack caries at least 20 brands and they only had 1 tire choice.  This would be no better than the Pax System… if you got a flat chances are no one would have a replacement.   So I downgraded to 17” rims and surprise, I had a choice of about 20 different tire brands.  I chose the following: Goodyear Assurance ComforTred 235/60R17 with Elbrus 102 17” High Pressure Cast Alloy Wheels.   The load rating of the Goodyear tires are slightly less (102T) than the Pax tires (104T) but 102T is the same load rating as specified for the 2008 Touring Non-Pax 235/60R17 Tires.  These wheels ship with a centering ring… a circular piece of metal that ensures that the new alloy wheels oversize hub mounts concentrically to the vehicles hub for precision wheel rotation.  Some wheels may not require this (if designed only for a Honda) but many will. Tire rack mounted and balanced them (for free) using Hunter Precision Balancing Machines and shipped them in one day!  I received them in (flawless condition) on day two via UPS ground.  Total cost with shipping was $1,077.  This is less than the cost of just 4 PAX tires with mounting!!  I love Tire Rack!!  This is the third set of tires I have bought from them and the experience has always been great.

What about the TPMS?  Well Tire Rack has the TPMS for the non-Pax equipped vehicles but they say they do not carry the ones for the Pax vehicles.   So your choice is:
1: Don’t use the TPMS (TPMS was installed originally for run-flats only because you might not know that you had a flat and the run flat could disintegrate after 125 miles).  Extra Cost: $0  and ignoring the TPMS warning on the dash display.
2: Dismount your old Pax tires or cut a hole in the tires and remove the sensors and install them on the new wheels.  Extra cost: $300 to dismount 4 pax tires + $90 for install, balance and mount on new wheels (Honda dealer quote).  
3: Buy new TPMS OEM sensors from Honda and install them on your new wheels.  Extra cost of $235 for new sensors + $90 for install, balance and mount on new wheels + $50 to initialize new sensors (Honda dealer quote).  

I choose option 1 and we are just ignoring the TPMS sensor warning.  I will be checking my own air pressure.

I plan to buy a 17” space saver spare from Honda and it should fit in the floor space after removing the revolving turntable.  Honda quote: $67 for wheel, $135 for tire, $25 for mounting = $227.  The Touring already includes the jack so nothing is needed there.  If you want to save your turntable, forget the spare,  buy a can of flat fix,  and keep your AAA membership up to date.   In the last 20 years I have not had a flat on the road that required a spare.   All the flats I have had were slow leaks due to nails and they were recognized and fixed at home.

So how does it ride?  This is subjective as I am comparing to how I remembered it to how it is now.  My first feeling was a lighter feel from the overall van.  The wheel response before felt somewhat lumbering.  The ride may be a touch harsher on broken pavement on side streets.  On the highway it is quieter.  I feel the taller tire sidewalls (more cushioning) on the 17” tires offset the stiffer suspension that results from less un-sprung wheel weight.   My significant other says it turns better and overall is happy with the ride quality.   Most importantly she is relieved about not worrying anymore about a Pax flat and getting stranded.

Conclusion:   I can now replace my tires with any number of tire brands at any tire dealer I choose for a fraction of the cost.  Of course I choose Tire Rack!  If I get a flat anywhere it can be fixed anywhere.  My ride is improved and in fact the new wheels are ultra cool!!   We can now travel without the fear of getting a flat and getting stuck because no one can change a Pax tire. Good luck and happy depaxing!  

As long as the tire sizes are close to the original Pax Tire size the ABS and Stability control should work just fine.  Pax tires wear out very quickly especially on the front of the vehicle.  I got about 22,000 on the front tires and 30,000 on the back before wearout.  There is a class action lawsuit moving through the courts. Honda just mailed out the settlement terms to all Odyssey Touring And Acura owners who had Pax tires.  The settlement doesn't buy you much... $110 towards a space saver spare kit (Honda sent letter to dealers saying it won't be available till July or August).  Reimbursement for premature wearout on a prorated basis; 36,000 miles max. Some wording about reimbursement for Depaxing but no $$ figures.  Honda should have made this right a long time ago instead of dissing their valuable customers.  

I suspect that Michelin may have some contract that obligates Honda to continue on with this.   Here is a receipe for failure:  Invent cool new Run Flat system that only can be serviced on your equipment.  Make the wheels and an oddball size that prevents use with any other Tire (look inside the Honda wheels and see that they are stamped Michelin!)  Make the equipment to mount the tires super expensive so no tire center would possibly shell out for it.  Make it so difficult that only specially trained technicians can change the tire.  Then soak your customers for each tire and each tire change to pay for all the development costs and all of the expensive equipment.  Expect the Pax system to gain in popularity while ripping off your customers.  Michelin recently announced that they were stopping reseach and development of the Pax system.  Seems they couldn't soak enough customers to pay for those costs.  See my post today about de-paxing.  

Thanks for all the info! I am in the beginning stages of de-paxing my 05 Touring and am trying to do as much research as possible. I am having a tough time deciding between the 16" and 17" rims & tires. It doesn't appear that there is too much difference, so wondered if there was a deciding factor that made you pick the 17". Also, did you need to get new lug nuts with the 17" system you bought? The rims I am looking at for the 16" are Honda rims (EX) so am assuming that I will be able to use my lugs from the Touring, but not 100% sure.  

Thanks again and good luck.  

I also own a 2006 Honda Odyssey Touring Edition with the Pax tire system and have had all the same trials.  We replace our pax tires about 6 months ago and  have had no problems whatsoever with the change over.  The tire company we went to was reputable and had already switched 10 vans over to regular tires.  

What I am writing about is to ask if any of you all have heard about the recall of the Pax tires?  I received information in the mail and have misplaced it and am looking to get info again; it's worth about $8,000.00.  I had to replace my tires every year since I purchased the vehicle and a couple of times in between.  It would be nice to recoup our losses wouldn't it?

Nancy  

Odyssey data. Mybe it will help

Internet car database  

Yes we all purchased the touring model for safety, comfort etc... but none of us expected tire replacement every 1.5 to 2 years (15,000 to 25,000 miles)  This is a van! Heavier vehicles get a lot better mileage out of their tires!  Settlement... HA! Who are they kidding… has anyone read the entire document?  Here is the breakdown for all:
1st, Michelin will enhance their PAX call center to address PAX tire concerns… Hmmm, hire one more customer service rep for their call center at a cost of probably $40,000 including benefits…and that is being nice… likely just divert calls to India for $5,000 a year.
2nd, they will post that if the sidewalls of your vehicle wear it does not mean you need new tires yet… HAHAHA, OK figure that out… may have something to do with the suspension, but I’m no engineer… would this not be admitting guilt by Honda??? – Poor engineering? Are Michelin and Honda watching each other’s backs???
3rd, If you previously paid to have your tires replaced before the 36,000 miles, Michelin will reimburse you the prorated amount provided you can prove it… hey any of you have your 2 year old receipt out there with the details of tire ware, depth, and a note stating that the reason for the new tire was due to premature tire wear… good luck having all the requirements to claim this one and able to jump all the hoops… your claim is being processed  and we will get back to you…sounds familiar?… HA!
4th, as a class action member you may get a $110 toward a Honda spare…WOHOO! The spare costs more than $110…
5th, in the future all current owners who in the unlikely event that your tire needs to be replaced before the 36,000 mile, it will be prorated… “tire only” YEA!!!  you still have to pay for the difference that includes the PAX gel, mounting and balance, etc… average cost  after proration will still cost an average of $200 per tire.  Michelin is not really loosing anything… they have already made their R&D money back and any money goes to their bottom line… and likely its will be a write-off so at the end costing them maybe $10 instead of $100 in profit per tire. Honda still makes their money on the install and shop charges… no loss to either one really…just ours…
6th, this is a good one… If I don’t want a spare, Honda will give me $300 toward a new Odyssey! HMMM trade my car in that I purchased to keep till it drops dead (10-12 years) take a loss, pay for a new car that will loose $3,000 the minute I drive it off the lot to save $300! Now that is tempting! Thanks Honda for the offer of good will!
7th, The 30 or so members who initiated the class action will split about $84,000 or $2,500 each-give or take a few $$$ for their “time and effort with this lawsuit”… hmmm, don’t read any more into this one…(“go ahead and de-pax , don’t tell anyone we told you this, we will just call it ”for your time and effort” here is some hush money…)
8th, And the best is saved for last… the attorneys who represented all of us, yes your attorneys… you know, the ones who have been calling and keeping you all up to date and meeting with you monthly and working real hard for you to get you every penny you deserve and be so grateful for all they have done… and did I tell you that they walk on water too… yea, they get $3,000,000… YES, THAT IS RIGHT $3 mil… I thought we were the ones who needed compensation… I guess they needed the money more than we did… who are we anyway…just the dumb ones who believed in Honda and Michelin to deliver a quality product…
If we all would stop and do the math, we are only getting about $300 worth of compensation on average, because chances are we are all going to at some point DE-PAX, not bother with the claim process or just trade in the vehicle in another few years and the 2nd owner will inherit the headaches… OH this makes me think of another point… RESALE VALUE… did we all not just loose about $1,000 to $3,000 in resale value to perspective buyers who will likely be telling us, I am not buying this car to pay $1,500 every year or two to replace tires… Good luck having someone buy this car with 90,000 miles…

Am I wrong?  Am I the only one who sees the problem here?  500 years ago peasants would have revolted and taken to the streets and torched the those who have wronged them but we are now much more civilized and now take it up the A$$ and don’t even get  lube with it and we are supposed to say thank you, may I have another??? What the hell was this judge and our attorneys thinking… how is this fair… I bet if the attorney and judge on this case drove this vehicle the settlement would look much different… Ummm Honda you will pay to retrofit the vehicles to accept a new set of tires approved by Michelin, and Michelin, you will pay for all past and current tire claims and for the new tires being installed…  Or at least established a fund that would have paid for all corrections to match the 09 model that are not PAX or settle to give each owner 4 free tires at the very least to carry them to the 36,000 standard Honda warrantee… any of those options would have at least made sense... I am open to thoughts… Do I have it all wrong?  Maybe after this, Honda and Michelin may need me to write them a check to help them through these “hard economic times”… Oh wait a second, I just did that with  Chrysler and GM …what the hell,  what is a few more fortune 500 businesses among friends…

If I could only run my affairs in the same way these companies do…  

I own a repair shop in Acton, MA specializing in Hondas and Acuras. There has been a huge demand for alternative setups to replace the PAX system. I would recommend to ask your local EXPERIENCED repair shop about retrofiting your van with the same wheels and tires that come from the factory found on Odyssey EX and LX models.  It makes sense to get rid of the terrible Michelin PAX run flat system the first time you need new tires to maximize the benefit/cost savings of the retrofit. You'll get 50% more treadlife and much better drivability. I hope this helps. Dave, Advanced Auto Sciences  

I purchased a 2007 Touring model and never thought to research the tires before buying.  At 27k miles they were basically shot and I got the shock of $1200 to replace the set.  I depaxed last week thanks to many threads including this one and am overall very happy.  The local NTB shop got everything I needed and installed it for about $1600.  When I test drove this vehicle I thought the ride and handling were pretty good for a minivan.  On the new, lighter tires I have noticed improvements in both, especially cornering (tighter feel and better grip on the road).

One note of caution.  In an attempt to keep the original tires in tact I elected to buy new TPMS sensors.  This way when I went to trade in or sell the car anyone concerned about non-OEM equipment could just put the original tires back on.  Anyway, the numerous postings saying there are no hassles with using new TPMS sensors are WRONG!!!  At least for the Touring edition, the ECU is programmed with the TPMS IDs at the factory.  Only a Honda dealer from what I can tell has the required tool to tell the vehicle to relearn new IDs.  Maybe other editions autolearn the new sensors but I'd be cautious.  

Same thing for me. I have 36K miles and one tire is completely without tred and the others the dealer told me no more than 10K more miles.
I am so angry.
I am trading it in!
But I am getting 2K less for my trade because the tires need to be replaced.
Yup.. they told 2K!
So we are trading it in.
Do not want to keep putting tires on every 30 K miles or so.. they are very expensive.
I too would like to know what to do.  

good morning
I am in desperated need of help. I have a 2007 honda odddysey touring.. And as many of us oddysey owner, need to replace my tires I live in philadelphia,pa. i need a shop thst would change my tires with aftermarket one... DEPAX my van.... also need to know the correct size of tires,brand and rims to buy...
if anyone knows of a reputable place to take my car PLEASE HELP... i need to replace them soon.