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honda odyssey PAX system

sunset-#001 sunset-#001
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 11/06
Posted: 11/05/06
05:08 AM


WHEN Michelin introduced its PAX run-flat tire in the United States on the Touring edition of the 2005 Honda Odyssey minivan, it predicted that the innovative wheel-tire combination “could become as commonplace as fold-flat seats.”

But now the tiremaker is giving up on PAX. A Michelin spokeswoman, Lynn Mann, said the company was no longer trying to sell automakers the system, which Michelin once described as “the biggest technical innovation in the tire industry since we introduced the radial tire nearly 60 years ago.”

She said that Michelin decided to discontinue PAX because automakers had several other choices in run-flat technology and that there was “slow growth of the extended-mobility tire segment in general.”

Ms. Mann said complaints from some consumers and lawsuits about problems — including high replacement costs and difficulties getting the tires repaired — did not play a role in the decision. She said the tire maker would continue to provide replacements and service to consumers who already had the tires.

With PAX, Michelin tried an approach quite different from other run-flat tires. Typically, this type of tire was designed with extra-strong sidewalls to help support the vehicle if the air escaped. With PAX, Michelin used a supportive ring made of polyurethane inside the tire. Michelin said the ring meant the sidewalls did not have to be so stiff, preserving ride comfort — yet if the tire went flat, the vehicle would still be safe to drive 125 miles at speeds up to 55 m.p.h.

But that inner-ring design made the PAX more difficult to repair, requiring special equipment to mount and dismount the tire. That equipment is available primarily at Michelin or Honda dealers. In several lawsuits and on some Web sites, consumers have complained about the difficulty of finding shops with the equipment to work on PAX; they also cite excessive tire wear and replacement costs as high as $1,600 for four tires.

Honda and Michelin officials have denied that consumers were misled. They have said that the PAX system delivered what was promised: the safety and convenience of being able to drive even with a punctured tire.

One class-action suit filed against Honda and Michelin last year in United States District Court in Los Angeles was dismissed. That decision is on appeal. Michelin and Honda are still facing a class-action suit in the United States District Court in Maryland. It consolidates class-action suits from Arizona, Illinois, New York and Florida. A judge has yet to grant that suit class-action status so it can proceed.

Honda is named in the suit because the PAX system was standard on the Touring edition of the 2005-7 Honda Odyssey minivan and is a $600 option on the 2008 model. A Honda spokesman, Chris Naughton, declined to say whether the 2009 Odyssey would offer PAX. The PAX system has been an option on the 2006-8 Acura RL luxury sedan; the 2009 RL coming this summer will not offer PAX, Mr. Naughton said. The PAX system was an option on the 2007 Nissan Quest minivan. Nissan is not offering it on the 2008 model.

Honda recommends that owners who have the PAX system not change to conventional wheels. Chris Martin, a Honda spokesman, said the Touring model’s suspension was tuned for the PAX tires and switching to conventional wheels “would compromise the ride and handling.”


pjcesq pjcesq
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 02/21/07
01:20 PM

Icon Quotesunset:
I have 27,000 miles on my touring and I was told at aprox 15,000 they should be replaced soon.  The following oil change I asked the dealership to look at them closely and they stated they were fine.  The following oil change they stated I needed the front two replaced soon. They are having a hard time telling me when they need changing... I am afraid to take my car on a long trip because I would hate to get stranded in a town that cannot change my tires or get in an accident because of the tires.  I am not interested in buying tires every 27,000 miles.  I think this is terrible.  I was told by the dealership that these would last much longer when I purchased the car. It makes me so angry.  I trusted the dealership, michelin and honda to build and sell an excellent vehicle....including tires.  What to do?

I am looking for contacts in New Jersey regarding Honda/Michelin/Pax tire problems.  Please get in touch if you have had problems.  I replaced the tires and wheels with aftermarket (Ronal) wheels and a regular set of tires.  I bought the air pressure sensors from Honda and these were installed in my new wheels.  So far, so good.  

If you live in NJ and have had problems, I'd like to hear from you.  

New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 08/06
Posted: 02/27/07
04:40 PM

I live in N.C. Please let me know how much it cost to replace with a regular set of tires.  I am not getting under 20,000 on my Pax tires, Sears is not selling them with NO warranty.  They laughed at me when I asked about the warranty, zero warranty.  I was told these tires would last as long as regular tires when I purchased my Touring Odyssey, at least 50,000 miles.  Honda really needs to step up and take care of this problem.  I understand Toyota had a recall on their run-flats.  

Harrison Huynh Harrison Huynh
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 03/07
Posted: 03/02/07
02:52 PM

Yes It happen to me too. Oh my gosh. What will we do?  

Harrison Huynh Harrison Huynh
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 03/07
Posted: 03/02/07
02:56 PM

My email is Please help me. Thank you  

New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 03/07
Posted: 03/09/07
08:28 PM

I have a 2006 Odyssey with PAX tires. In Sept last year, it took Honda dealer in NYC 5 days to replace a flat tire, And that was after I contacted Honda Customer service. Count me among those who won't drive the van more than 50 miles from home.

Has anyone contacted BBB or state consumer boards to force Honda/Michelin for a real solution?  and if so, what has been the result/response? Do the lemon laws apply here?  

pecos pecos
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/25/07
08:51 PM

Good ladies evening and gentlemen of the audio radiance, lend me your ears. I too have unwittingly purchased the ultimate of mutual aggrondizement between Honda and Michelin.  Sorry bunch of engineers they! However with a nail in my Odyssey's left rear tire, losing pressure and becoming more disenchanted with the whole mess, I decided to have a plug put in where the nail was and after $15.00 plus tax, I was on my way. There is about 3/32" tread left before disaster and I am going to try to find the RONAL wheel and rim company to see if they can sell me a replacement set of rims for this beast.  I'll keep y'all advised.  Pecos. Smile  

pecos pecos
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/25/07
10:52 PM

Well, Pecos cannot find the Ronal wheel and rim company.  Could someone please get me the eMail address or their phone number. I need to perform the same replacement as the gentleman before me on my Odyssey 2005 or I won't have any PAX at all, much less Michelin's version of that mental state.  Help.  404-325-4866 Locksmith.  

k-p-111 k-p-111
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/26/07
10:02 AM

am currently having the same problem, I also want to join the class action lawsuit and am having a problem with the fact that there was not full disclosure at the time of sale, that I am now stuck with these tires and the large *** it costs to change them every 20k miles, and what is even more frustrating is that Honda is the only one that can change them and i would like to travel but fear that if I am stuck, with 3 children, where there is not an authorized pax tech what do i do?????????  I posed this question to Michelin and they have said that they would put me up in a hotel and fly in the tires...which i find very hard to believe, or i should re-phrase I believe this would cost me selling my house    

I have contacted both Michelin and Honda again like most of you they will prorate only the cost of the tires but I will still end up paying over $900 I would like these tires swapped out for regular ones has anyone done this?

I am all for calling ABC news as well as my local news to make consumers aware of the cost, and all the problems from the beginning with sales to mis-information and the process and inconvenience and still getting nowhere, has anyone attemped this???

Please help...  

Cyberpepper Cyberpepper
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/27/07
10:11 PM

My Odyssey is sitting at the dealer ship as I write this after having them replace my tires that I prepaid for. Every rim has been damaged and I am trying to work a deal to have them take care of switching to a wheel and tire of my chasing along with a spare donught in the lazy susan well of the floor. I am not taking the odyssey off the lot until they have made it right by me. If they supply me with a 17" wheel and tire I have chosen I will let the matter drop. If they don't I will take photographs of the wheel damage done by them and retain an attorney. I am not going to put up with this insane monoply that Michelin and Honda have conspired in. This system is wrong and I will pursue it as far as humanly possible. The replacement wheel was priced to me at $400.00 each. If they don't take care of my request on Monday I will try to contact the media myself. You might be able to my shaking from anger as I write this  

hondax2 hondax2
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 04/07
Posted: 04/28/07
10:27 PM

Today's PAX Tire Ordeal:
Van owned for 13 months, 16,000 miles.  New tread depth on PAX is 10/32, mine were 3/32 front and 7/32 rear.  Michelin specs are minimum of 4/32 tread depth.  Called Michelin at 877-pax-tire (aw, how cute)  they now have 24/7 support BTW, that tells you something right there.  

Set up a claim number and then called the area dealers for PAX costs, best was $192 for the tire plus $75 each tire for labor (!).  FYI another dealer 15 miles away was charging $300/tire plus $100 each for labor and my local honda dealer did not have the PAX machine even though the Michelin database said they did.  

Note that I specifically asked about the tire life when I bought the van and the dealer stated it was 35K miles.  So today I had the dealer I went to contact the Michelin rep to start the claim, they agreed to pay 70% of the tire cost for the two tires that were out of spec, so it cost me $170+/- to get the two tires replaced after one year, and it looks like I will be doing two more at full price in 6 months unless Michelin comes to their senses.  My local tire dealer (non-PAX) said he would put together a tire/rim package for the local Touring owners as he has started seeing quite a few people come in with less than 20k miles and shot tires.  He said it reminded him of the Ford Explorer tire fiasco a few years ago.

A few other items: Since I didn't bring proof of tire rotation and my tires were on the high side on pressure (which was done by a honda dealer BTW as the TPMS kept saying the pressure was low) Michelin resisted paying anything until I told the dealer I was going to keep the old tires for the lawsuit that was filed in LA in March, then within literally 10 seconds the Michelin rep agreed to pay 70% as a 'goodwill' gesture.  Also I have had two Michelins with material defects on my Pilot.  Expect to lose a day if you go thru this tire claim process, it took us 6 hours today.  

No_More_PAX_for_me. No_More_PAX_for_me.
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 05/07
Posted: 05/24/07
09:43 PM

There is no easy way to say this: We Odyssey folks are screwed. Accept it. Let's recover.
Here is how.

I have a 2005 Touring model and yes, my tires only lasted 20K miles. Honda offered a $ 200 per tire swap...and that was it. For that money, I can get a GREAT tire vs the TRUCK TIRES the Odyssey uses...that's right, those Michelin tires are rated as TRUCK TIRES.

Time to call the TIRE RACK at 1-800 428 8355(go ahead and google them -they have a great web site. I ordered a nice set of 16 x 7 Rims with the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)to go with a set of 235/60HR16 Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires.....these tires are FANTASTIC. They grip a wet road like no other and are standard on BMW 5-series cars. Their load rating is a 98H which exceeds the axle requirements for the Ody, so you are legal. I got 5 tires/rims because we Touring folks have no spare and I wanted a full size. That small doughnut tire is $ 350 ! And Honda couldn't even get me one...oh they could get the rim.....oh forget it...I'll get a full size and put it in the car when I travel anywhere. So there you have it... $ 1288.00 later, I have no PAX tires and my car drives like a Sports car. Better than turning it in for a LX and take that loss....Best of luck to all of you.  Laugh  

paul571 paul571
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 05/07
Posted: 05/29/07
12:55 PM

Hello everyone.  We are going through the same thing as everyone on here.  We have decided to remove the PAX system and go a nice set of after market wheels.  I just want to confirm the bolt pattern on the Touring is 5 x 120 and with an offset of 35.  

Thanks and good luck to all.


tkk tkk
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/01/07
06:15 AM

Hi.  I found this site because I just started having trouble with my right rear passenger tire.  I have a 2005 odyssey touring (about 13,000 miles on it) with the PAX System (235-710R 460A 104T).  In the last 2 weeks, I've noticed losing about 10 lbs every 5 or 6 days.  I just had the tires rotated at the end of April and the Honda rep said the tires looked great after he rotated them.

I'm going to claim girl ignorance here and hope someone can recommend some NORMAL tires I should use to replace these pax tires.  I went to the tire rack website as suggested but I'm not sure what I need -- tires & wheels?  Also, what size?

I want these pax tires off my odyssey completely and the local tire place I called wasn't much help.  

KTJackson421 KTJackson421
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 06/07
Posted: 06/04/07
11:55 AM

I have 18K miles on my 1 year old Odyssey and took it in to a Honda dealer due to pulling right. Guy said the tires were 80% worn and needed to be replaced immediately. Michelin warranty states if it's over 50% worn, warranty doesn't count. Honda suggested replacing all 4 tires with regular tires, but then called back to say they couldn't do that.  Honda dealers are disagreeing with each other, and Michelin has yet another opinion.  The only Honda dealer in my state within 60 miles said it'll be $1000 to replace two tires, will takes weeks to order and receive them, and their machine is broken so they won't even schedule the service.

During the first year, I had 3 nail punctures.  The Honda dealer "fixed" them even though they aren't a "certified PAX" fixer, and now Michelin says they shouldn't have touched them.  Honda patched them and that invalidates the warranty too.

Does anybody know if Virginia residents can get in on a class action suit, because this is consumer fraud like I've never experienced.  

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